Ezra—Psalm 45 with Shawn & Nathan
In this episode of the 13 Week Bible, Shawn and Nathan preview the Scripture for week 6: that's the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther & Job, along with the first 45 chapters of the Psalms. This represents a major shift in our reading, as we move out of the historical sections of Kings and Chronicles. We not only hope you'll enjoy their fun and informative dialogue but will be inspired to read or listen through the Bible yourself.
For more inspiration, visit Loveshaped.life.
Transcript
Hey, it's Nathan and Shawn again. We want to welcome you back to the 13 week Bible season two. Today we're in episode seven ahead of week six is reading as we share in this epic journey through the Bible in just 16. Excuse me.
We're in episode seven ahead of week six's reading as we share in this epic journey through the Bible in just 13 weeks. We pray you're making incredible discoveries and seeing God more beautifully. Today we're previewing Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, and on through Psalm 45. Sean, how are you?
Shawn (:I'm well Nathan, how are you?
Nathan (:I'm doing good. One of my favorite books this week that we're previewing.
Shawn (:Oh, let me try to guess. Esther. Ezra.
Nathan (:No.
Shawn (:Niemaja.
Nathan (:You're really going through them. You don't know? You can't guess? I'm joking with you. Jobe, yeah. Jobe's quite a book. You got any words about your reading experience that you would want to add? I know we talked last week about sort of the reading experience. I didn't know if you had anything you wanted to add this week as you're working through the text.
Shawn (:Job. Okay, all right, there you go, Job.
No, nothing in particular. I did get a little behind that I'm trying to catch up. We're ahead of the reading anyway, so I'm not behind what we've read for this episode. But yeah, just trying to catch up. I was just sharing with you that I've been writing a major paper for my doctoral work. So my brain was kind of fried for the last few weeks. But now I have a little more extra time. I'm able to do some catching up.
Nathan (:Yeah.
Nice. One of the things I noticed as part of, again, trying to keep up, which is part of the journey itself, I focused this last week on actually working through the text as a week project rather than a day-to-day project. So I would read day-to-day, but I didn't mark off the day's reading. I marked off the week's reading.
Shawn (:Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:And that was just a different experience as far as thinking of the reading rather than thinking of it as one day's reading I was thinking of it more. As a week's sort of even a bigger picture so i'm still working through day to day but i'm thinking of it more on the week scale and I don't know they just sort of changed how I saw the text so.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:Again, just to encourage you to find a way that works for you. The idea is to get the big picture of the text, whatever that means for you. If it means reading every word, if it means working through chapter headings one day, going back and skimming the next, whatever that means, just do it. Because we're working through the text to get the big picture, not to check the box that we've read every single word. So, and keep it up. Again, Sean just admitted that he's off pace.
Shawn (:Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:That's normal to fall off pace. Don't sweat it. Just take steps to get back on pace. Skim the headings. Commit to coming back in the future. Better to try to stay close to pace than to just get piled up.
Shawn (:And maybe I would say this, Nathan, find someone to partner with to do this, because I'd be honest with you, if I wasn't committed to this process with you and recording this podcast and all that, I think I would have just quit because I'm like, well, I'm like four or five days behind. I got so much going on. So I probably would have just gone, yeah, I had a good run. I'm not going to make it this time.
Nathan (:Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Shawn (:So having that accountability and knowing that you're going to be processing it with somebody else and maybe you don't need to do a podcast in order to feel accountability, but finding somebody else I think could be helpful.
Nathan (:Yeah, yeah. So I'm thinking about, especially this morning and a couple other times, encouraging a big read at the beginning of 2024 to accompany this podcast. And if I decide on a way to organize that, I mean, obviously, by the time you're listening to this podcast, it'll already be happening. So hopefully, by the time you're listening, you will already have found your group to...
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:work through the text with. It's a great small group project, great project for friends. And again, just keeping each other accountable. Not a heavy-handed accountability, but just kind of the expectation that, hey, we're going to talk about this week. And it just helps to keep you on pace. It's so good. I, again, thoroughly enjoy it. I'm just going to run through the, well, recap, quick recap for last week.
Shawn (:Yeah, yeah.
Nathan (:the week we're just finishing up, how would you recap that? Because it was what? Second Kings 16 through the end of Second Chronicles. What would you say is the big recap for this past week's reading?
Shawn (:Well, I think it's one tragic story of God's people devolving into terribly unfortunate behaviors as they turn away from God's rulership and go into, as you use the term, Nathan, morally deforming behaviors. And ultimately God allowing them to...
Nathan (:Hmm.
Hmm.
Shawn (:reap the consequences of their decisions and actions and behaviors, you know, first with Israel, the Northern Kingdom, and then with Judah, you know, the Southern Kingdom. So that's what I would say was the big picture idea of the readings and really to a large degree as well, the significance of poor and immoral leadership, which has incredible effect on...
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Shawn (:God's people.
Nathan (:Yep, that's right. So we find ourselves with this week's reading in Babylonian captivity. That's basically where we left it in 2nd Cret, the end of 2nd Chronicles. So this week's reading really brings us to the end of an era in the historical narrative. There is some additional history we're going to read, but a lot of what we see from here on out is writings and prophets.
Moses was a prophet, yes, but we're looking more at messages to God's people before or during or after the Babylonian captivity. That's basically the rest of this Israel story. One of the things we will talk about periodically is Old and New Testament. And I just want to throw in there that I heard a friend of ours, David Asharick, say,
There's one page you can rip out of your Bible. I know that sounds sacrilegious, but that's the page between the Old and New Testaments. So I'd like us to think about in this podcast, maybe talking about the big divisions in scripture as Israel, Jesus, and early church, to keep in our minds that this is a continuity. Yeah, there's a huge 400-year gap between Malachi and the ministry of John the Baptist.
Shawn (:Hahaha
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:but it's not a gap in the narrative per se because this is the people of God. It's a different, different eras of the people of God, but the same storyline. We're, go for it. Exactly.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's not, yeah there's continuity, it's not like, you know, what you just said made me think of when I was an undergraduate at Andrews University, I was doing a preaching class and one of my classmates and good friends, he was a Jewish Christian and I'll never forget and today he's I think kind of not a good Christian.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:Christian at all, he's just embracing out his Jewish, his Jewish heritage. But I'll never forget, he stood up when it was his turn to preach, because this was a preaching class, and he was great zeal and violence, literally ripped out that page that separates the two testaments. And he was just wanting to show in a very visible way, what he felt about the tendency within Christian circles.
to make a stark dichotomy between the two testaments.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Yeah, yeah. So I was thinking about this week because actually we are just a few days by the end of this week's reading. We're just a few days before cresting the peak of our read. So this week we're still climbing the hill toward the middle of the reading, but next week we'll actually come to the top and begin descending toward revelation. So but thinking about it, there are 10 weeks out of
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:13 spent in the Israel story. There is three weeks in the Jesus and early church story. So you can see massive weight on the Israel story, but that's not really accurate in the sense that a lot of the Israel narrative and the prophetic narrative finds itself repeated, quoted, alluded to in the Jesus and early church narrative.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:So it's not just sort of a clean break between the Israel story and the Jesus and early church story. They're just super woven together.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
And you know, some might even push back on your framing of it, where they would say, well, the New Testament is a continuation of the Israel story. You know, it's not something different from it. It's not a replacement for the Israel story. It is still the Israel story. God is still trying to do His thing through His people. And so anyway, but that would be a good discussion for the future.
Nathan (:Yes, yes.
Yep.
It is.
Yeah, and I was thinking of that. So again, this is just a crude break to sort of find a simple way to get rid of old and new Testament. But you're right. It is the Israel story. Paul makes that case all the way after the Jesus story makes the case of Israel for an Israel defined by faith, not defined by genetics, but that's a conversation we'll probably cross into. Yes. So.
Shawn (:Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Which, yeah. I can't wait for that one. I cannot wait for those. Those are awesome.
Nathan (:Quick recap, not a recap, but a preview of this week's reading. We are starting with Ezra. And again, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther all fit into a category together in that they are books that occupy the Babylonian captivity and a bit of the post-Babylonian captivity as the exiles begin to resettle the land.
So Ezra, Priest and Teacher, primarily a book related to the rebuilding of the temple and bringing God's people back into harmony with his will. You'll find there are several decrees related to the rebuilding and restoring of the temple that show up in Ezra. There's also a specific focus on resolving mixed marriages. Nehemiah primarily focuses on the rebuilding of the wall.
and the book also however does include some reform especially the Sabbath among others. Esther is the story of a queen's intervention, Jewish queen by the way, of her intervention for her people during the reign of King Xerxes preventing a mass slaughter. Then we move to a totally different time in history and a different kind of book, the book of Job.
the story of a very wealthy man from the East who suffers devastating loss at the hands of Satan, then is accosted by miserable comforters, as he calls them. He finally hears directly from God and his losses are ultimately reversed through God's providence. Then we're into the Psalms, book one of Psalms, which is chapters one through 41, mostly credited to David. And then we move into the early chapters of book two of the Psalms.
You may or may not find those divisions in your version of scripture, but there are five books that make up the psalms And again, we'll finish book one and move into book two of the psalms That's the quick preview. Sean. Let's jump into
Ezra I did want to talk though before we do that just about some characters in the story. We do talk about the Israel national story, but there's some characters who acted in the secular world Joseph Under Pharaoh and this is interesting Joseph is second only to Pharaoh like he is all but at the top of a Just major non Hebrew power
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:Esther, queen of Media Persia under Xerxes, Mordecai, powerful noble under Xerxes, holding the place of highest honor among the nobles of the kingdom. Daniel, which we haven't looked at yet, but again thinking about individuals who played major influential roles in non-Hebrew kingdoms. Daniel under multiple kingdoms in Babylon and two empires, as well as Nehemiah, who's cup bearer to Artaxerxes.
I know what you think about that.
Shawn (:Well, I mean, it's fascinating because, you know, generally, when we think of the Hebrew Bible, we think of a commitment to place, I guess we could say, where, you know, the temple has huge significance and generally, it's a picture of God trying to draw people to a place.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:and it is the nations that they are hoping to draw to themselves, rather than them going out and meeting the people, so to speak. So there's a very stark distinction between God's people, you know, I put that in quotes, who are very separate from. We see that in Ezra because they're...
They're making a very strong distinction when it comes to the intermarriage that takes place and they even take a record and account of that. So there's a very distinct sense of separateness and to any degree that there is interaction, it's you are coming to us. You are coming to our place. We have this holy sacred space.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:you must come to us. So it is fascinating when you get those glimpses, those little vignettes of people who are who are living within the nation so to speak, who are going out because that's not the impression you get of the Hebrew Bible. It's very much as I understand it the model of kind of now the Jesus age where you know Jesus
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Shawn (:sends out the apostles, he sends out the disciples to go out. It's not like we're trying to draw people to ourselves because this one place bears significance. It's like, okay, you guys are going out into the nations. So I know that distinction is interesting and I do find it fascinating with that being said, the very point you were making that you have these people, Joseph, Daniel, et cetera.
Nathan (:Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:who are a little kind of preview of what's to come, if you will. Now they were in those circumstances against their own volition. They didn't want, so it's almost like God has to drag them to be in those positions of influence. But I think part of it is God was doing something specific. He was trying to set up, as we've talked about before, a
Nathan (:Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Hmm.
Shawn (:a nation that was a people that was very immature. So they needed to have those guardrails of, you know, not being not being exposed to those other influences. So he had to protect them in some ways. But I don't think that's ultimately what God wanted. There were certain people, apparently Daniel, Joseph, as we mentioned, who could handle being among the other nations. But
Nathan (:Hmm.
Hmm.
Shawn (:the vast majority of people couldn't. So that's why God had to have them come to Israel. So, but yeah, it is really interesting.
Nathan (:And we're going to get to a text, I think this is Jeremiah, where he says, pray for the prosperity of the nation in which you find yourself an exile. So those are words in our future reading, but interesting sort of model. Again, you talked about what appears to be an exclusivist, almost exclusivist framework for the national story.
Shawn (:city.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:But then we find again, and we're not talking about just some low level, which I think is a fascinating part. We're not talking about a low level position in these kingdoms. When we talk about Daniel or even Nehemiah, we're talking about positions of significant influence. And so I just think that's a cool thing to sort of notice that the followers of God have occupied outside of Israel.
have occupied positions of significant influence and favor within non-Hebrew kingdoms.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Well, we didn't even mention Esther, right? I mean, that's, yeah, yeah. But yeah, she obviously was in that category of people who were in high, you know, high authority. So yeah.
Nathan (:Right. Well, I did, but we didn't talk about it. Yeah.
Alright, let's talk about Ezra, the first of our book and. The first of our books for this week's reading. Any comments on Ezra?
Shawn (:Well, I do think, you know, I'm sure it will impact us a little bit more, but yeah, that point we were just making about the intermarriage, the judgment that's brought against that. And I mean, that has all sorts of larger implications and theological discussions. But it is interesting that God was so moved by and, you know,
Nathan (:Hmm
Shawn (:Frustrated with I guess we could say this Failure to remain sure and to resist the influences of the other nations through those through those marriages, you know clearly as We were just coming through the life of Solomon, you know, it says that those foreign wives drew Solomon's heart away from The purposes of God so
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:This is a theme that is developed throughout the Hebrew Bible. And I think it's, you know, again, we can probably revisit it down the line when we come to the New Testament, because Paul, you know, talks about being unequally yoked and so forth. But, you know, that's a theme that is woven throughout scripture is the dangers of compromising in this area.
Nathan (:Hmm
Yeah, and I think it's worth noting this, by the way, is something you can keep your eyes open or ears open for as you listen or read through Ezra 9. It won't be new because we've seen this in the past, but it's interesting that Ezra says, the land you're entering, this is he's actually quoting from the past in from the law. As he's calling the people back to faithfulness, the land you're entering to possess is a land polluted by the corruption of its people so.
It wasn't like, would we say, xenophobic for this instruction. It was actually very practical, grounded in God desiring to create a people of high moral integrity. And the marriage, the intermarrying was not an issue of mixed races. It was an issue of moral deforming. And, and God
Shawn (:Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:was seeking to keep a very clear boundary between Israel and the influence of the surrounding cultures, which had become so morally deformed as to pollute the, like literally pollute the soil is kind of the picture you get in scripture. And so God's like, don't get mixed up with them because if you do, they're going to be your undoing. So again, it wasn't a worry about Hebrew children having Philistine blood.
or vice versa, it was exactly which certainly when we talk about racism have definitely if we're thinking racism, we're totally wrong, totally missing the point. It was that had nothing to do with it. It was God wanting to establish a people who reflected him in character. And this very practical action was. Essential.
Shawn (:the wrong complexion or yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:to doing that at this point in the human story.
Shawn (:Yeah, I think that's a great point to make and you know, obviously there could be some further wrestling and discussion we could do about the religious component of you know being quote-unquote unequally yoked and you know to what degree that is Still relevant today applicable, you know generally in this
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:conversation we've been having, we're not kind of applying it to our present context, but you know, discussions of, well, can a Baptist marry a Presbyterian? Can a Seventh-day Adventist, which is the background we come from, can they marry a Methodist? And you know, that's an interesting discussion, but you know, that would be for another day.
Nathan (:Hmm.
It will be for another day, yes. So as probably not weak, I'm sure we could find a venue to have that conversation though. So Ezra and Nehemiah are our leaders focused on two different pieces of work. Ezra is a priest and his call by God is to lead the rebuilding of the temple. Nehemiah's call is to lead the rebuilding of the wall. They
Shawn (:Probably not on this podcast.
Yeah
Nathan (:Their story overlaps, as you clearly see, near the end of the book, they're both engaged in the reform process, both talk about resolving these mixed marriages. But why do we have the rebuilding of the temple before the discussion of the rebuilding of the wall? Do you think that's deliberate? Is there any particular order to be thinking about, or is that just happens to be the layout of the historical narrative?
Shawn (:You know, I think, you know, God places a premium in the Hebrew Bible on this, this temple that displays his glory. You know, he's wanting to restore, kind of going back to what we were talking about, he's wanting to restore true worship. He was wanting to restore the opportunity for his people to, you know, again, not because he had an ego trip.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Hmm
Shawn (:not because he was saying, oh man, I've missed people falling down and bowing and you know, whatever. He knows ultimately that true worship is the only thing that can fully restore the principles of love that he is so eager to see human beings experience. So I know, I think that's part of it, is that this is a high priority for him. Again.
Nathan (:Yep, yep, yep.
Right.
Shawn (:I'm not sure that physical space in 2023 is as important as it was in whenever this was, 500 or 400 or whatever, BC. But it is at that moment a significant part of God's ability, if you will, quote unquote, to restore a morally forming type of worship.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Yeah, I love that. The word that the sentence that came to mind is, worship is at the heart of formation. Both deformation, as we see in the Israel story, and formation. We're going to get to the Psalms. That's interesting. And also coming out of the Chronicles, interesting, the focus of David at the end of First Chronicles, just the consuming focus of David on worship.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:When we get to the Psalms, which I won't say much about right now, because we're going to get to that in a few minutes, but a lot of worship there and a lot of formation in relationship to that worship journey.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Well, I think, you know, what a common theme with that being said is, to my earlier point, is that there are times, of course, where God's like, I don't really want your worship. I don't care about, like, we'll get to that, especially in the prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah and so forth. But worship alone is not enough for God.
Nathan (:Hmm
Hmm
Shawn (:The purpose of the worship is to instill a life of moral integrity, like we were saying. And so, coming to the temple and worshipping and sacrificing and going through the right motions is meaningless to God if it's not ultimately leading to a worshipful life, if you will, through a life of integrity. Now again, that life of integrity...
Nathan (:Mmm.
Yes.
Shawn (:is predicated upon the true worship of God, but it's not the, you know, the liturgical behavior is not what God's after. He's looking for us, you know, to go back to that first commandment, to have no other gods before Him. That's what he's ultimately after, because living in that experience is what is necessary to form a praiseworthy...
Nathan (:Hmm
Shawn (:moral life.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm. I think it's fascinating because you and I do basically zero pre preparation for the podcast, but your comments are right in line with a comment I made in my reflection on the reading. And I said, I asked the question, why the temple?
Shawn (:Hehehe
Mm.
Nathan (:It formed the path to relationship with God and a life of loving like God. It's worth noting that God is not in fact interested in simply teaching people how to worship, at least in a traditional sense. The sanctuary demonstrates that a life of love is inseparable from a life with God. God's redemptive project is not primarily about the human breakage of law, but human formation into law-like lovers.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Well
Nathan (:I mean, that's what you said. I formed it, framed it a little bit different. But I see that theme over and over and over again of this. And and law like lovers, it's sort of a sort of a bit of careful road to walk because we're not focused on performance to earn salvation at the same time, following God is grounded in the way we treat each other.
Shawn (:Hahaha
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Well, my brother-in-law says, as we commonly say, great minds think alike, but my brother-in-law then adds, but small minds seldom differ. So maybe, I'm not sure what we have there, but no, I think that's right on. And for those who are tempted to make much of the details of the...
Nathan (:Hahaha
Shawn (:liturgical format or whatever. Not to harp on this type of point, but I remember a number of years ago, somebody trying to speak about the evils of using percussion in church, quote unquote. And they pointed to how when David brought the Ark of the Covenant,
that the first time there was percussion, and Uzza went out and tried to grab the arc and he died. And then the second time, David's like, oh man, I gotta do something different. And he uses every other instrument the second time, but the percussion. Bill was like, oh, look at this, you know, that shows we shouldn't use percussion. Now, again, that touches on a whole discussion about to what degree these types of
stories are supposed to be normative for us and so forth and so on. But my point is elsewhere, I was reading this last time, I think Samuel makes this point and then in Kings there's percussion in the second time, whatever. So my point is I don't think the details of the
be some sort of normative, you know, way of doing things. Because, I mean, after all, if we're trying to make it normative, what temple? Are we talking about Solomon's temple? Are we talking about Herod's temple? Are we talking about the sanctuary that moved around in the, you know, because they're all different. And so again, to your point, my point that I'm making is, I don't know that God is wanting his people to get hung up on those things.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:The point is what it's all pointing to, and that is the character of God, the love of God, the supremacy of God, so that we can be formed in His image by His grace.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah, so we got to move on. But before we move on, one observation. Israel is led out of Egypt in the Exodus. The first thing they do when they camp out is related to the law and the tabernacle. And then they move toward the promised land and ultimately into the land of promise and set up as a nation. So I find that interesting that here in the rebuilding, the exiles returning the
Shawn (:Yeah, let's keep going.
Mm.
Nathan (:Order the story is told in is temple rebuilding, then wall. Same order when we look at the Exodus story. I just thought that was a fascinating parallel between the two storylines, the first the Exodus, the second one, the exiles returning.
Shawn (:Mmm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Good point. Yeah.
Nathan (:So Nehemiah is a book about the wall being rebuilt and a leader who is the cup bearer to, was it, did I say Artaxerxes or was it Xerxes?
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
I think, yeah, Artaxerxes was it, I think?
Nathan (:So, well, forgive us if we've forgotten that quick. But anyway, there he was, cut bear in the palace. And interesting in both cases, in Ezra's case, the kingdom actually funds either all or a big chunk of the rebuilding of the temple. And also in Nehemiah's case funds a chunk of the process to rebuild the wall. So it's interesting how these non-Hebrew kingdoms.
Shawn (:Hehehehe.
Nathan (:are directly engaged in the restoration of God's people as a nation.
Shawn (:Mmm.
We can confirm, Nathan, it was Artaxerxes. We have these two genius pastors here who have just read these texts and we've already forgotten.
Nathan (:Thank you.
I can't say their names aren't similar.
Shawn (:That's very similar. Yeah, we just call art. Just call them art. Artisercise. Just call them art so we can remember. Yeah, yeah Let's
Nathan (:All right, there you go. Yeah, that's right. Anything else from Nehemiah? We did spend a lot of time in Ezra, but yeah, anything else in Nehemiah?
Shawn (:Yeah, two things jump out at me. First of all, Nehemiah begins with this prayer of corporate repentance. I'll use that term. He is praying, well yeah, he's confessing the sins of not only himself, he's confessing the sins of Judah. He's confessing the sins of his people.
Nathan (:Hmm. Yeah. Can you explain it to us what you mean by that?
Hmm
Shawn (:which is fascinating because Daniel, we're going to find that as well when we go later on, which again, you know, it has all sorts of interesting implications, but he is deeply grieved, you know, Nehemiah 1.7, we have acted very corruptly against you and have not kept the commandment statues and the ordinances which you commanded your servant Moses. So, Nehemiah takes it upon himself to be some sort of representative for the people and he
feel some level of responsibility. You know, he's a cup bearer. He's not, you know, he's not the president of Israel. He's not, you know, the high priest or whatever. He's a cup bearer for the king. Obviously he's given some significant responsibility, but yeah, like it's fascinating that, and I think Ezra kind of touches on that as well, where the people were to confess the sins of their fathers.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:interestingly where, you know, so I mean that has all sorts of other implications, but I just find that fascinating. There's a tension there in scripture where on the one hand we're not held responsible for the sins of our ancestors on some level, like you know, a number of places God says I'm not going to hold the children liable for the sins of their parents, but on the other hand, there is a sense in which.
Nathan (:Mmm.
Yeah.
Shawn (:the children do apparently feel some level of responsibility and want to make things right. So that's an interesting theme. Secondly, Nehemiah, of course, he has repeatedly tried to be drawn away from his ministry, drawn away from his work. And he's like, nope, I have a mission. I know what I'm here to do. And I'm not coming down off the wall. I'm just sticking with this. So go away. You know,
Nathan (:Hmm.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:take a hike, so to speak, like you can't deter me, you cannot pull me away from what my job is. Thirdly, last thing I would just point out is, yeah, you touched on it a little bit earlier, is the significance of Sabbath, where he's distraught by what these people are doing to desecrate the Sabbath. And it's not
Nathan (:Hmm
Shawn (:some sort of arbitrary, hey, you're just keeping it the wrong way. It's like they are not seeing the full value of Sabbath and entering into the restorative, liberating nature of Sabbath. They're trying to keep pushing their sails. They're trying to keep pushing their wares. And so Nehemiah is very disturbed by this. He says, close the gate. We can't have any of this, right?
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:And I can't remember what it was, but I noticed it in our reading recently. I'd always kind of speculated it, but there was some passage, I don't know if it was Chronicles, where God does specifically point to their desecration of the Sabbath as the reason for their exile. And so not to encourage some sort of legalistic, like, oh man, you can't do X, Y, or Z on this holy day, but there is...
Nathan (:Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Shawn (:Again, to our earlier point, there is something morally deforming about not entering into all God sought for Sabbath. So there's something going on there that I think Ezekiel will bring it up when we get there, but there's something going on there where God has a jealous regard for Sabbath, not again because he wants to just be worshiped in some...
Nathan (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:you know, egotistical way, but he knows that there is a key. And the other prophet talked about it as well. There is something key about entering into Sabbath that God knows is morally forming in a positive way.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And we could spend a whole podcast series actually talking about the Sabbath. I think it's worth bringing in that. I think it was Chronicles mentioned Jeremiah's prophecy that the land would be in captivity for 70 years. And that was specifically so the land could rest for its sabbatical years that were missed.
Shawn (:Mm.
Mmm, yeah.
Nathan (:In the Hebrew calendar, there wasn't simply the weekly Sabbath, but there was a bigger rhythm of Sabbath. So we often think of Sabbath in the limited weekly sense, but Sabbath represented as I see it, a rhythm of living at rest in God's providence that extended beyond the boundaries of the weekly Sabbath. So Nehemiah is talking about the weekly Sabbath, but Israel's in captivity because they've desecrated in a sense.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:or neglected the Sabbath years that were part of their rhythm beyond the week, were part of their rhythm as a nation over the years. And again, we could take a whole podcast, but something to pay attention to in the text is the way Sabbath plays into the story of rest in the providence of God.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's right. I know we probably have to keep going Nathan because I was thinking man What are we gonna be able to fill a whole segment of on Ezra and Nehemiah and here we are like 35 minutes into it and We haven't even gotten to the larger books in this in this week Yeah
Nathan (:Yes, easy. Right. Yes. So Esther is, I would say Esther and Ruth provide insights into God's providence for his people even when they were not in their homeland. Of course, we see that in Nehemiah and Daniel, but I think it's interesting. Not only that God is providing for his people in
Shawn (:Mm.
Nathan (:when they're struggling, when they're in foreign lands. I think it's also interesting on another note to notice that these are two books of women having a prominent place in the story of God's people.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm. Just gonna say that.
funny to say to us perhaps in: Nathan (:Hmm. Yeah. Then we're on to Job. So that, again, is one of my favorite books. If I had a choice, I might put Job as the first book in the Bible to be read. Genesis or Job, those are they're just so Job is a book for me. Again, there's lots of ways Job is interpreted as far as the beginning of the book, where there's this kind of
Shawn (:Hehehe
Yeah.
Nathan (:um, representative gathering, what appears to be this representative gathering of leaders from multiple worlds, which is a whole conversation in itself and Lucifer, um, or Satan, he comes claiming representation from earth. And for me, this story, this
Shawn (:in
Nathan (:introductory story to Job has so many layers and then following with the entire book has so many layers that in company with a handful of other places in scripture for me give profound insights into
the events happening in the invisible space that spill into not just spill into but directly affect life in the visible space as we know it.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally agree. It seems like that first, those first couple chapters of Job kind of pull back the curtain and what I like to refer to and give us insight into the story behind the story, like there's something else going on outside of our planet, if you will, and it gives us insight into a cosmic narrative, a cosmic story going on.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yes.
Shawn (:And yeah, like you say, some have said that Job may have been the first actual book written. I mean, you know, that's sometimes, to some degree, a foolhardy pursuit is to try to figure out exactly when each book was written. But you know, there's people who are much smarter and spent much more time than us wrestling with these things. But you know, there's a lot there that really gives insight into.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Right?
Shawn (:this larger story going on. And it's interesting that on some level, it's a story about Job's character, but on another level, it's also a story about God's character, where there's a subtle questioning from this Satan figure, which I happen to think it's probably this power that we think of as, quote, Satan.
Nathan (:Hmm
Hmm
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:But there's a subtle, maybe not even subtle, but it's ultimately Satan questioning God's character. He's saying, yeah, Job, Job's a good guy, but he only follows you because you give him the goods. He's in your favor. And so if you take that away, you are not worthy of following, sorry, following.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:And so yeah, it's in many ways a trial of Job, but on some levels it's also a trial of God.
Nathan (:This accusation of God as a manipulator is really an echo of the same accusation in different words all the way back in the garden. So it's another thing that for me sort of reinforces the idea that this book is not just, is not simply a poetic description of a difficult experience in a person's life, but is actually the pulling back of the curtain on real events, real conversations.
Shawn (:Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:outside the human space that impact the human space. One of the things that comes to me as well is.
Job informs us that our human perception of reality is often in the dark. There was never a point in the story of Job when he understood that Satan was the instigator of his troubles. Never, not a single moment. From beginning to end, Job believes that God's hand is responsible for his misfortune, which is also part of it, that this
Shawn (:Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:conversation in the heavenly realm that brings God's character into question for that conversation to be resolved, Job can't actually know about Satan's participation in his misery, because if he does, he then has then he's not able to choose God in spite of appearances.
Shawn (:Mm.
Nathan (:He now has an explanation. Oh, it's the devil making a mess of my life. I can trust God. So then we still have sort of the candy machine God, which is kind of the accusation at the beginning of the book. So Job has to stay in the dark in order for his loyalty to be genuine and for Satan's accusations to be carried out in.
Shawn (:Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:tested in legitimate real world fashion, if you would.
Shawn (:Yeah, that's really interesting and insightful. I think really great points. Maybe the question would then become in my mind, why so if all the goodies are taken away from Job quote unquote, like why would God be worthy of following? Why would God be worthy of his devotion? And like if God is a tyrant, not the job.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:thought that, but like if God was a tyrant, then why would he be worth, you know, giving our allegiance and devotion to? So I don't know, that's maybe, I'm trying to process and think out loud here as you say that. You know, because kind of towards the end, obviously, God's
Nathan (:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Shawn (:answer to Job fondly is like, well let me ask you some questions Job. Like, and he, I wouldn't say he flexes his muscles, but he's just kind of like, you know, where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? And in other words, like, I've done all of this, this mighty powerful stuff. And he's not trying to overwhelm Job with a sense of shame. He's just saying,
in some ways like, hey, I've done all this, I probably know how to manage your life. Like, you can trust me that I'm going to, you know, seek to do what's best for you. But it's interesting, just on another note, like as we were going through this section, and this is gonna be a little dated, but you know, this.
as we're reading this, it's right around the time where, you know, Hamas has blitzed Israel. And I'm reading this and I'm thinking, and I'm interacting with Jewish friends of mine, and I'm just thinking about the parallels there between the tragedy that we can't make sense of, and we wanna know, okay, man, where's God in all this? And, you know, sometimes we just don't see it. And Job certainly, you know, he has...
Nathan (:Mmm.
Shawn (:He has plenty of questions, but it's not as though the story is just like neat and tidy where he's just like, yeah, it's fine. Like he is, you know, there are times where he is like very passionately unsure of, you know, and that's another point. Like there's uncertainty there. Like Job, yeah, comes out looking like, you know, God's faith in him was justified, but it was not just a simple straight line of...
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:Like no questions. It was like he went through the valley and there were moments of doubt. There were moments of questions. Not that he ever cursed God, but he. Yeah. So anyway, I'm kind of rambling here, Nathan helped me sort through that.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
No, but that's good. And I think the rambling represents the fact that Job, the book itself gives us a dish of complexity, but doesn't tell us all the ingredients necessarily, or maybe that's not the right metaphor. It helps us see the behind the scenes story, but also tells us that in day to day life, we may not.
Shawn (:The book!
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:understand the complexity just like Joe did not understand the complexity.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm. And maybe the punchline to the whole thing, for Job at least, is, though he slay me, yet will I trust him. Like, he can take it all away, he can take my life away, but I'm still going to affirm his goodness, his trustworthiness, his love.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
And that, I think, goes to the question of why that you asked earlier. Job clearly in the book has is coming into this tragic episode in his life with a preexisting sense of God's goodness and a relationship that is intact and in place before these events in his life unfold. And.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:I think that's important to note. This isn't some random guy from the streets that just randomly runs into bad circumstances. This is a man who has been walking with God per se using kind of the Enoch language from in Genesis. This communion, this relationship with God and is in a position to go through a horrifically dark valley and survive it.
because the glue and his relationship with God is sturdy enough to make it through to the other side.
Shawn (:In other words, the story is not Job saying himself. God is a despicable, terrible character, but I'm going to follow him anyway because he's God. It's based on, I know I've experienced his goodness before, and I know that I'll experience it again in the future. God, this is kind of like a period where for whatever reason,
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:God is allowing or these things are happening in my life, but it is not a reflection of his character. It is for some reason just a period, an episode in my life where I can't quite see God's goodness, but I know it's there because I've experienced it before and I'll experience it again. So, yeah, he's not saying God's a terrible bloke, but, you know, I guess I have to, you know, trust him anyway. It's like, no, I've experienced his goodness.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Right? Well, and that comes through in the sense you see over and over and over in the book where Job's like, if I can just make my case, he'll understand me. So there's this belief in God's continued goodness, even though Job always to the end of the book believes that the tragedy in his life is directly the action of God, that Job believes there's some misunderstanding here because my friend,
Shawn (:So, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm
Nathan (:is good and kind and just and if I can just make my case with him, he would see my case and understand and respond accordingly.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Which is interesting because, you know, in the book of Psalms we see this a lot as well, where whether it's David or others, they don't have pride, but they have confidence in their own righteousness in some ways. That's a loaded expression I just used.
Nathan (:Hmm
Shawn (:They are, and they look for the judgment. They're like, come on, God, examine me, bring it on. I know that my character will be vindicated if I can just have my chance in court, so to speak. So again, there's that tension because in the New Testament, we see Paul saying all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. And yet, there's a sense in which, not that it's their own righteousness, but.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:you know, not to get too ahead of the story here, but it's the righteousness of Jesus, but they have allowed it to transform their lives. And so they're like, yeah, I have confidence. Like I did not do the things that these people are accusing me of doing. And I can stand in the confidence that I have lived a life of, you know, righteousness before God. So if I can just get my chance in court.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
Shawn (:I know that all this will be cleared up and I'll be fine. So, I mean, that's an interesting, very interesting dynamic.
Nathan (:It is. And I highlighted that in the Psalms conversation. So, by the way, God actually supports Job's claims in a sense, because at the beginning of the book, God says, this guy is blameless. So when Job argues, I have been good to my neighbors, I've been good to the poor, he is actually telling the truth. And at the outset, again, God has indicated that Job is correct. Interesting question to ask you, not so much for an answer, but for a pondering.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's perfect.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:Job says in the last chapter, my ears had heard of you, but now my eyes have seen you. Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes. My question is, what did Job repent of? God says he's blameless. I don't have an answer to that. I'm just throwing it out as you begin reading this week, just be thinking about that. Psalms.
Shawn (:Hehehehe
Yeah.
Mm.
Nathan (:So we've gone through some whiplash here as we move. In fact, as we move through into the Jesus story between now and the Jesus story, we're going to experience what I would call whiplash. We came out of Second Chronicles into the time of Babylonian captivity. Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther line up well in that. But then the whiplash comes in because Job takes us all the way back to
most likely pre-Israel days could be Abraham's day somewhere in there. He lives more than 120 years, according to the book. So that kind of helps us put his story somewhere in the past. Pre-Israel, again, we're going to get in the weeds if we try to date it. But it's definitely an earlier story. So that's an early story. Then we come to Psalms. Psalms encompasses the earliest Psalm is
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:It's not in this week's reading, or it's not yet. It's not in this week's reading, but it's a Psalm of Moses. But the Psalms also extend into the captivity. So Psalms is, it's a whole different book. It's basically a collection of prayers and hymns that are essential to Hebrew worship. So Psalms gives us kind of an insight into the language of the worship.
Shawn (:Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:for God's people Israel.
Shawn (:Yeah, and Psalms, you know, we'll unpack this probably a lot more next week because a lot more of our reading will be in Psalms, but yeah, man, it's really encouraging on many levels because of the raw nature of it. And some of these, yeah, it's a prayer book and it's kind of songs and you're like, man, is this what they're singing in worship like? This type of...
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Right.
Shawn (:This type of language, this type of imagery, this type of sentiment, that seems pretty raw and vulnerable. I occasionally attend a Jewish synagogue, like I did, again, just last week after Israel was attacked by Hamas. That's the way the worship of Jewish liturgy is. They're wailing. They're crying.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:They're lamenting and as I've heard some people say, we in the West, we don't know how to lament. Like we can't stay in that space. It's almost like we're allergic to it, but this is raw stuff. Some of it is really positive and give thanks to the Lord for he is good, but others of it is, yeah. We'll impact that a little bit more next week, I'm sure.
Nathan (:Hmm.
But this is a great reminder to all of us as we move through the text. It is appropriate for us to get outraged and angry when we read things in scripture that bother us. So when you read of the awful time, we've already been through this, but judges, when we read through Isaiah, which recounts some really horrific stuff, for us to get outraged and puzzled and angry, even with God.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:and how we feel he may be involved in it is not sacrilegious. That is part of the human struggle and the formation of our hearts and our understanding of God and his making us into beautiful people is moving through the anger and.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. That's a huge...
Mm-hmm. It legitimizes every human emotion. Like, it is not inappropriate to feel anger. It is not appropriate to feel sad. It's not inappropriate to be happy. I know it's funny to say. It's not inappropriate to feel resentment. Now, I don't think we should stay in that space, but some...
Nathan (:outrage.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Right.
Shawn (:There's plenty of Psalms where David's like, I want this dude to fry. Like I, I do not like this dude needs to, he needs to get what he deserves. And like, he's in the wrong. I'm in the right and God do something because this isn't, this isn't working. So yeah, that's very important to recognize and acknowledge.
Nathan (:Right.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so book one again is almost all Psalms attributed directly to David. Book two, we just get into the beginning of that, but those are not directly attributed to David. A couple of things to keep in mind, watch for the messianic overtones that litter the book from the
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:Hebrew connection to the Son of God in, what is it, Hebrews two, Psalms eight, if you compare those, Hebrews one, Psalms two. But then there are overtones of the death of Jesus that are in this week's reading. The forsaken experience of Jesus on the cross is part of this week's reading. Secondly, threads of the Psalms can be found in other parts of scripture, not just the Messianic piece, but other...
Shawn (:Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:elements of the Psalms. Again, because this represents kind of the worship language, the poetic language of the people of God for a massive amount of history. Again, going all the way back to Moses and then all the way into the exile time frame, we have pieces put together, pulled together into the Psalms.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:Any other themes? I've got a list of themes here I want to point out, but I wonder if you have any themes that you would mention as we're again next week will be almost entirely in the Psalms. This week we just dabble in them.
Shawn (:No, I think what jumped out at me is just the point I just made, just the legitimacy of the full range of human experience and emotions that God apparently does not shame or preclude. Like, this is appropriate. And so that's the level I was kind of looking at it when I've been reading it is...
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Shawn (:just legitimizing the human experience.
Nathan (:Yeah, Psalms is harder for me to read in this 13 week, by the way, one of the harder ones, because poetry is hard to skim. Just straight up hard to skim.
Shawn (:Mmm, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And you're like, and there's so many Psalms, and maybe it's just because of the fact that I'm reading the message and I feel a little disoriented because I know, you know, my Bible I've had since I was 17, you know, I know the layout, I know all that. And so for some reason, I'm having a hard time distinguishing between like, Psalms, like, okay, this one sounds like the last one. And this one, like,
Nathan (:Yep.
Hmm.
Shawn (:They're all the same thing going on here. So I don't know, I'm not picking up that nuance because we are doing a quick reading. You know, it is harder to kind of settle in and really slow down and pay attention to the distinctions between one psalm to the next, but there definitely is obviously a variety in there.
Nathan (:I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and that's another reason why it's great to switch up translations, because it does sort of un-more you from your kind of pre-organization in your head and helps you see fresh stuff. So here's some of the themes wickedness orchestrates its own demise. That theme actually comes up in this week's reading will come up again. Another is the problem of evil when it appears to triumph. This is a theme that's wrestled with in the Psalms.
Shawn (:Thank you.
Yeah, exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:A God who sees and hears, another theme. We've seen it already in scripture, Tower of Babel, et cetera. The pre-Exodus time frame, this God who sees and hears, that's a theme that shows up in the Psalms. Judgment as an act of deliverance also shows up in the Psalms. Justice for the poor and the weak also ties in here. Again, my friend Steve Allred and I are going to
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Nathan (:do an entire 13 week, again, reading series like Sean and I are doing now on the justice and mercy themes of the text. Favor and righteousness going hand in hand. That's, Sean, you alluded to that when you were sort of, we were just on the cusp of talking about Psalms. A longing for God, that shows up over and over and over again, especially in these Davidic Psalms. And a trust in God's providence.
Shawn (:Mmm.
I was gonna say, one thing that jumped out at me as well is I think there is a tendency, which I think is the appropriate balancing move to recognize within scripture the collective nature of scripture and some of the reading I'm doing in just my doctoral research to some degree kind of downplays
or questions the tendency within the American psyche to highly individualize the Bible and to make it all about me and lose the larger narrative. And this is God trying to do something for a people, not just like my personal relationship with Jesus or my personal salvation. So I'm...
Nathan (:Hmm.
Shawn (:I'm inclined to recognize the significance of that important correction. However, when I read the Psalms, I'm greatly encouraged about the personal nature of it. Like, this is very clearly a relationship between the writer and God, and focus on God deliver me, and God you have done this for me.
Nathan (:Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Shawn (:There are times where he's talking about the corporate, Judah and Israel and so forth, but the majority of it does, to use the term legitimize again, it does legitimize the significant relationship between God and the individual.
Nathan (:Hmm. I was just in a CPE class yesterday and our teacher, instructor, whatever, referred to one. I'm not sure what discipline this person's profession was in that she was quoting, but three layers that we inhabit individual group and universal. And those are spaces in our lives that we inhabit. And you're talking about, you've mentioned today both
Shawn (:Mm.
Nathan (:two of them and one is the group space, the other is the individual space. So that is interesting.
Shawn (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Well, I just, yeah, just to bring home the point again, like, I do think there's a danger in being so preoccupied with just ourselves and, like, just about me and my relationship with Jesus. But I think I almost was inclining to overcorrect lately just because there is a disdain almost in some of the people I'm reading.
Nathan (:Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Shawn (:about the tendency within American Christianity to be all about the individual. So, reading the book of Psalms like, okay, this is legitimate. Like God does want to, I know it sounds silly, but God does want to relate to us as individuals. And there's importance. Yeah, there's an importance to that reality that like, David is like, yeah, me and God, like, we're, this is the thing, right? So anyway.
Nathan (:Mmm, that's a beautiful reminder.
Yeah. So there's so much we can touch on. We got to wrap it up before we start losing listeners. You just want to swing back to something you mentioned, and that's this idea. This is from Psalms 18. The Lord has dealt with me according to my righteousness. So, Sean, maybe we can talk about this in the future.
Shawn (:Oh man.
That... yeah... I mean that sounds like a bad thing if God's doing that, but it's a good thing for David, right?
Nathan (:Yeah, and it shows up over and over and over again. So here's my something I wrote in relationship to this idea. Salvation is not some metaphysical mystery, but concrete in two ways, deliverance from enemies and restoration to moral integrity. Following God is never separate from one's treatment of others.
Shawn (:Hmm.
Mmm.
Nathan (:following God is never separate from one's treatment of others. I am seeing more this theme in scripture that salvation is more a way of doing than a theory of the world, kind of in the mindset of scripture, walking with God is concretely about the way we do life more than it is the way we
Shawn (:Hmm
Hmm.
Nathan (:philosophize or theologize about God and life.
Shawn (:Absolutely. Great point. I think that's so important and one topic we could keep pressing and I'm sure we'll return to it.
Nathan (:I think we will because it's going to come up again and again in the Psalms, which we get to sit in next week. So this week, enjoy your reading, starting with Ezra and moving into the Psalms. God bless you in this journey and may you see his beauty more clearly as you move through the text. Thanks for sharing this time with us.
Transcribed by Riverside.fm.
