Zechariah 11—Luke 20 with Shawn & Nathan

Nathan (: 00:02

Hey, it's Nathan and Sean again. We want to welcome you back to the 13 -week Bible Season 2. We're in episode 12 ahead of week 11's reading as we continue this exciting, rapid journey through the Bible in just 13 weeks. We're both enjoying our read and learning new things along the way. We hope you're enjoying the same and perhaps have taken up the challenge of reading the Bible through in 13 weeks.

It's an incredible way to see the big picture of scripture. Today we're previewing the rest of Zechariah, beginning with chapter 12 and then moving through Luke 20. So we'll be taking in Malachi, Matthew and Mark as we journey into Luke. This will bring us deep into the Jesus story. We'll spend the final of these three weeks of the 13 weeks. We'll spend these

final three weeks in the Jesus and early church stories. It's been amazing, Sean.

Shawn (: 01:05

It has, Nathan. It's great to connect on this again.

Nathan (: 01:09

It is, we have had a few challenges getting back to record this next episode, but I am actually have started reading along with the folks who are reading this, this winter and spring through the text. So we are in the book of Jeremiah this week. So it's kind of cool coming to talk about the Jesus story when, um,

I'm in the middle of Jeremiah and just finished Isaiah last week. A lot of connections between Isaiah and Jeremiah. Let's finish up the pre -Jesus books. Zechariah we talked about in our last podcast. So, few chapters there from Zechariah. And then we come to Malachi, the last of the books before the Jesus story. And Malachi,

Shawn (: 01:42

Hmm.

Nathan (: 02:06

has some verses that are famous within our community. One of them is a prophecy that anticipates the coming of John the Baptist. Another is a stirring call to be faithful in paying tithe and offering. So those are a couple of the standouts. Any standouts for you from this last book of the pre -Jesus books?

Shawn (: 02:34

Well, you covered them. Those are the typical verses that we point to a lot. I don't know what other faith communities grab out of Malachi since I've only been in one my whole entire life. Probably many don't even read Malachi, but we have a lot to say about this little book. I love the message, not just pointing forward to John the Baptist's ministry, but I love...

the actual content of that ministry where the ministry that John the Baptist has, or it's called the Elijah message, because it's actually a prophecy about quote unquote Elijah. The heart of the ministry is relational reconciliation, turning the heart of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. I mean, that is a beautiful, beautiful prophecy.

Nathan (: 03:12

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 03:32

And one that I think has great relevance to today is just that need for, again, relational reconciliation. And I could take that idea down many different paths, but I won't do it at this time. But it's just, there's a lot there where that is, you know, like you alluded to, our faith community has made kind of a big deal about this as we think it's sort of like a quote unquote last day message.

Nathan (: 04:01

Hmm.

Shawn (: 04:02

and prophecy. And I love how at the heart of that is reconciliation. And all the discussion about other concerns when it comes to the end of days or the final days on earth before the return of the Messiah, we probably lose sight of the fact that that is at the heart of what our

our task is to bring reconciliation between fathers and children, parents and children, children and parents, and not just that, but other people as well, of course, that type of reconciliation.

Nathan (: 04:44

Right. I was just looking in the book and there are some additional beautiful lines like this one. You who fear my name or for you who fear my name, the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. So there are some beautiful lines in the chapter. I love and those are in addition to what you've mentioned, those last lines of the book about reconciliation. In fact, reconciliation as we

Shawn (: 05:00

Mmm, that's beautiful.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 05:14

get into the Jesus story in Jesus, what we might call his inaugural address. Actually in the first section of that really centers what Jesus calls peacemaking, blessed are the peacemakers. And so it's interesting that you would bring that up, that Malachi would bring that up and that Jesus himself centered it as significant.

Shawn (: 05:32

That's right. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 05:42

Sometimes we think of faith and scripture in theological terms when scripture is about really relational reconciliation with God and with fellow human beings.

Shawn (: 05:57

That's right, that's right. You know, Nathan, one point here before we leave Malachi that I've always remembered, my dad used to do little Bible quizzes growing up. We'd drive, you know, long drive somewhere and, you know, we didn't have tablets in those days, iPads to entertain us in the car. He would always, I remember to this day, what's the last word in the Old Testament? What's the last word in the Book of Malachi?

Our listeners will never forget this because I brought it up. What is it, Nathan, without looking?

Nathan (: 06:29

I don't know. No, no I don't.

Shawn (: 06:31

You don't know! Okay, the last word in the Old Testament. You ready for this? It's cursed.

Nathan (: 06:36

I would not have guessed that. Yeah, I'm not surprised this in Malachi because Malachi has some strong words mixed with words of hope. Yeah, read it for us. It depends on the translation though, too.

Shawn (: 06:49

So anyway, just a little trivia. Just a little trivia. Well, there's only, you know, if the King James version was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me, Nathan. I'm being funny. And he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse. With a curse, there it is.

Nathan (: 07:14

There it is, yep. My ESV says destruction. So that's why I had to mention that. But neither one of those would be a word I would prefer to experience.

Shawn (: 07:19

Oh, okay. All right. Okay. All right.

No, no, but it's interesting how, you know, again, we could take that and run with that, but there is, you know, there is a certain disintegration that happens when there is family strife and disconnection. So, makes a lot of sense. But anyway.

Nathan (: 07:44

Yeah, I think it's actually significant that you mentioned that.

is a society that doesn't honor the way of love absolutely will collapse. It's just a matter of time.

Shawn (: 08:01

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yep.

Nathan (: 08:04

So the Jesus story, let's talk about that. We've touched base on, or we've talked about, I should say, the kind of the Old and New Testament divide. And I think I was the one who made the little comment about not seeing that division the way we usually do, which is why I'm trying to refer to what's traditionally called the New Testament as the Jesus story and the early church story. The sort of...

Shawn (: 08:31

Mm.

Nathan (: 08:32

And so what I want to just chat about for a minute is the continuity of the text that That we're not reading a new story we're just reading the next chapter of a long story and I just love your thoughts on that because I think this is so huge and here I've been in around scripture for 40 47 years or something like that. Obviously not all of that's been

Shawn (: 08:46

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 09:01

consciously aware. But with all that time around the text, still thinking and reminding myself that this is a single story with multiple chapters. It's interesting how that feels like it opens up fresh insights, even today. So I think it's worth sort of just sitting with it for a minute. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Shawn (: 09:15

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, on the one hand, I want to be sensitive to like our Jewish brothers and sisters for whom this is not just a continuation of the story as they understand it. You know, there were many movements that arose that, you know, interpreted the quote unquote Old Testament, maybe a technical term that would be used as the Tanakh, the Jewish community.

that interpret it differently. And so Jesus is just one version of that from a historical perspective. So I do want to be sensitive to that. You know, I don't want to, you know, there's like 400 years at least between the Hebrew scriptures and, you know, the writing of the New Testament. So I want to be sensitive to that. But of course, I am, I'm a believer in Jesus. I do believe he is a continuation of that story. And I do think it is critical that we understand.

Nathan (: 10:05

Hmm. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Shawn (: 10:27

that there is, it's just like you say, continuation. It's the next chapter in the story. I will say that as we've talked about before, it is of course a maturing story. And so as we've talked about ad nauseam and many times, just because it is one unified story, it doesn't mean that the beginning part of the story has.

Nathan (: 10:42

Hmm.

Shawn (: 10:56

as much perhaps in it for me as the latter part of the story. Again, not denying the importance of the earlier part of the story, but I just want to be careful that I, just because I understand that it is a unified story, that I don't think that every part of the story has as much. Again, we've probably gone over that a thousand times, so we don't need to dwell on that. What you're putting your finger on is that appropriate recognition that,

Nathan (: 11:00

Hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 11:27

This is a continuation and we need to approach it as such and realizing that there's echoes, there's going to be echoes of how Jesus himself very much believed that he was again just a part of that long narrative, that long story and he is so bathed in the Hebrew scriptures himself and he's always referring to it. It's interesting, last night I was listening to another podcast.

Nathan (: 11:35

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 11:57

where one of the hosts was talking about how the great commandment, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. The host said, you know what, that wasn't even Jesus who said that. That was Jesus quoting the book of Leviticus. So in some ways, there's very little that's original to the Jesus story, because it's just echoing what we find before it. So.

Nathan (: 12:12

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 12:26

Yeah, I love that recognition.

Nathan (: 12:29

And I also like the idea that the story's going somewhere, which is kind of what you said, almost it's building. And I think that is huge to keep in mind that this story is an unfolding story. It's a building story as well. And things get better and the coming of Messiah in, as we enter the Jesus story is unprecedented on all kinds of levels.

Shawn (: 12:37

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 12:59

And I think it's helpful to think about too, coming into the story that they, they were not looking at the story as history. History was being written. And sometimes we forget that, like just asking the questions as we read the story. How did they know?

Shawn (: 13:00

Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Nathan (: 13:22

What is it that they share in their books that they felt was the most compelling telling of the story of Jesus to their compatriots? I think that's the right word, to their comrades. What was it? Because they were making a contemporary case within, you know, within a they weren't not written during Jesus lifetime.

Shawn (: 13:25

Mmm.

some patriots.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 13:50

but they were making a case for their contemporaries to embrace this very new figure in the story, in the human story as the son of God. This is heady stuff. Like this is incredible. There's just a guy from Nazareth who's killed as a criminal. There's some shady stuff around, you know, the legitimacy of his execution. I mean, it happened, but as far as the accusations and stuff, people who knew the story would have heard different versions.

Shawn (: 14:01

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 14:20

There's the miraculous story of his resurrection, but he also is a guy born in Nazareth. And so they're making an incredible case. And it's built on these accumulating years of prophetic lines stretching all the way back to the time of Moses.

Shawn (: 14:26

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yeah. I mean...

Yeah, I mean on the one hand we know that there was great anticipation that there would be a Messiah that would come who would liberate, you know, God's people from the bondage that they found themselves in under Roman rule. So they were looking forward to this and arguably you could go back all the way to, you know, the beginning of Adam and Eve.

Nathan (: 14:52

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 15:12

they were looking forward to a deliverer, a messiah. So on the one hand, it's not surprising that they were anticipating someone showing up. On the other hand, there was a lot of competing figures that had same claims, right? That they were the messiah, they were the deliverer, they had come, you know, we even think of like Barabbas, you know, he's a classic example of somebody who seems to be,

Nathan (: 15:39

Hmm.

Shawn (: 15:42

this sort of deliverer, great hero figure that was going to... So it's somewhat surprising that this person, Jesus, was the one... know, initially, I think a lot of people, including his disciples, were unclear on the type of deliverance he was going to provide. You know, for a while they assumed that, okay, this was building up towards some grand...

you know, liberation from Roman rule. And then eventually, of course, it didn't go as they expected. And so it is a little surprising, as you pointed out, that their expectations were one thing, and then what happened was a different thing. And for them still yet to conclude that, oh, yeah, he was, he was the Messiah. That's, that's a very surprising turn of events that maybe we

Nathan (: 16:12

Hmm.

Shawn (: 16:41

couldn't have anticipated if we were just neutral casual observers.

Nathan (: 16:46

Right.

what you mentioned sort of makes an easy segue for something I noticed in this previous read. And that is that the king, the king idea, the monarchial imagery was.

an invention of the people of Israel in a sense.

as a backsliding from God's real purpose. It was one of those new chapters in the story that God was adapting to the human demands while continuing to keep the dream alive as you would. And so for me it's fascinating that Messiah in even the prophecies about the coming of Messiah, you'll see them showing up in

Shawn (: 17:30

Mmm.

Nathan (: 17:43

in Matthew as far as being fulfilled, that Messiah would have king language around it when king language was not intended to be messianic language. And it only becomes messianic language because God adjusts what he's doing to the human story. So I think those pieces are an incredible story of how God relates to humanity.

Shawn (: 17:57

Mm.

Nathan (: 18:12

taking what we throw at him and doing what he can to make something beautiful. And even the Messiah story has these nuances and pieces that are born from human rebellion. And God repurposes them, turns them on their heads, but uses them in preparing the people for Messiah. So anyway, sort of what you were mentioning.

Shawn (: 18:40

I think...

Nathan (: 18:41

Just brought that to my mind.

Shawn (: 18:44

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I really like that where he had to kind of turn things on their head and take what they could relate to and work within those parameters, which is, as our very good friend Nathan John Calvin likes to say, God accommodates himself to our language and our context. I'm kind of saying our good friend John Calvin tongue -in -cheek, but...

Nathan (: 19:05

Hmm.

Right.

Shawn (: 19:12

No offense to those who are big Calvinists on this who are listening.

Nathan (: 19:17

Right. Well, we should talk about Matthew, Mark. So Matthew, how would you describe the, well, before we do that, would you give the reader any or listener any words of wisdom as they come into the Jesus story? As far as reading, is there like a frame of reference to think of the text through? Is there anything to keep in mind as they're reading or listening through?

Shawn (: 19:22

Mmm.

Nathan (: 19:47

these new sections of scripture and even new styles almost, they're in a different time. 400 years later, there's been a lot of cultural influence and shifting. So the books definitely read with a different, there's kind of a different flavor from what we've been reading up to this point. Any words of wisdom?

Shawn (: 20:10

Yeah, well, it's a refreshing flavor, I would say. You know, a different, a little bit different, you know, the genre is certainly different than what we've just come out of in The Prophets, where there's a lot of poetry and, you know, verse in that regard. So it's more narrative, of course, although there's a lot of parables, as we'll discover. And so, yeah, the...

Nathan (: 20:14

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 20:40

the historical context is different. In many regards, there has been more influence with, and I'm not saying this in a bad way, but just Greek sensibilities have now also influenced the context of scripture, maybe more of what we're used to in the West.

Nathan (: 20:57

Hmm.

Shawn (: 21:08

you know, that sort of Greek, Roman, philosophical. Again, this is not a bad thing per se, it's just that it's more relatable. And of course, we in the United States, for those of us who are in this context, we have now come at the end of, we're reading this 2000 years after, you know, we've been influenced by Christian culture and thinking and Greek and Roman and all that.

Nathan (: 21:20

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 21:38

So we're probably a little more used to these waters than the Hebrew scriptures. But yeah, I would say, of course, as we've touched on before, we're going to be reading four different accounts of the same story. And that presents all sorts of fun opportunities and things to notice. And I think it's really cool that we get these four different.

Nathan (: 21:51

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 22:07

perspectives. You know, there's discussion among scholars about how there's similarities between Matthew, Mark, and Luke, the so -called synoptic gospels. And, you know, is there a common source among, for all of these three books, because they're so similar? And, you know, those are fascinating questions that we'll let the scholars, you know, discuss. But either way, I think it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful story of a beautiful person.

Nathan (: 22:23

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 22:37

Jesus who changed the world, more than any other human figure ever has. So that's a really neat opportunity to kind of get into the trenches, so to speak, and see what it is that was so profound about this person.

Nathan (: 22:53

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. And one more piece, you mentioned the four different authors. This is one place where it becomes very clear that the human divine partnership that brought us scripture definitely has the human fingerprint in it. Because you don't have four identical narratives.

Not that we would necessarily expect that from God, but you look, and I find it, Luke to me seems to be the outlier of the three. Matthew, Mark, the narratives, the storyline, the events that follow at one after the other seem to line up pretty good. Especially if you're trying to figure out like the final week, what we might call Passion Week. Luke and then Matthew, Mark.

Shawn (: 23:35

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 23:51

don't line up quite as neatly as we might think. There's stories that seem to be about the same event that are actually in different places on the timeline. And so we wonder if they're the same story remembered differently or if it's similar stories that happen at different times. So this is, it's just a great window into the fact that the...

Shawn (: 24:11

you

Nathan (: 24:19

The prophetic gift was a dynamic work of the Holy Spirit working with human beings, but those human beings never became robotic reproducers of divine thought. The human beings were always actively engaged in the work of communicating the story of God, and God did not override their freedom and engagement in the process. While,

also overseeing the work so that the end product brings to human beings the thing we need and that's how to know God so that we can love him and love people.

Shawn (: 24:58

That's a great point, Nathan. I think it's critically important that we recognize that these books aren't, as we've talked about before, aren't necessarily supposed to be a minute -by -minute exact accounting of the story, that this is exactly how it happened, this is the order that these events took place. You know, there's people who try to recreate the

the timeline of events and that's cool, that's all great, but recognizing that each author does have a specific purpose for which he writes and that doesn't mean that there wasn't really this guy named Jesus who was, you know, that this guy wasn't born in Bethlehem and he didn't, you know, die outside the city walls of Jerusalem. We know that the basic outline is...

Nathan (: 25:35

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 25:55

is accurate. Well, I believe the basic outline is accurate, but it's not, it's not, um, my faith is not dependent on these events happening exactly as, you know, the order in which they happen. And maybe there was, maybe there was really, you know, 5 ,500 people that Jesus fed instead of 5 ,000, or maybe there was only, you know, 4 ,700 that he fed instead of 5 ,000. You know, those types of things are not for me.

Nathan (: 25:59

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 26:25

They are not, my faith does not rest on the accuracy of every little detail.

Nathan (: 26:33

Right. And I think it's worth noting that those, that the accuracy of every little detail was never the point of the text. Knowing the person of God is the point of the text. And that's just really important to keep in mind that that's where this is going. And so read the text for what it's written for and just recognize that. So, um,

Shawn (: 26:42

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Nathan (: 27:00

I think one of the things just getting into these gospels, what we call the gospels, these Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the four books, which we're not going to make John this week. But one of the things that's cool is noticing where in the story the final week of Jesus begins. So if we're in like the book of Matthew, which is the first one, the final week of Jesus' ministry,

Shawn (: 27:22

Mm.

Nathan (: 27:31

begins in chapter 21 and there's 28 chapters in the book of Matthew. So that leaves a full eight chapters that happen almost entirely within an eight day span. The Matthew piece, the last chapter of Matthew, there's pieces of that that happen 50 days after Jesus' resurrection or so.

Shawn (: 27:34

Mm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 28:00

but the bulk of this happens within about an eight day span. So it's just kind of interesting for me that's the part that helps me sort of recognize, wow, this is a lot. There's actually a lot of information from a short period of time, a comparatively significant amount of information from that final week as opposed to the rest of Jesus' life. So let's talk Matthew.

Shawn (: 28:05

Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Well, just one little point on that and I mean even taking a step back as well from that, like we're basically talking about only three and a half years of Jesus' life in the whole book. I mean there's a couple chapters that deal with his birth and early life and then 98 % of it is just the last three and a half years of his 30 plus years of living.

Nathan (: 28:29

Oh, what are you?

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. So you and I were, yeah, exactly the same spot, right? And in Matthew, what are the highlights for you? What are the standouts for you?

Shawn (: 28:56

We're tracking.

Oh man, that's like asking me to pick my favorite memories with my children. I could go on for days. Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, Matthew is a very, you know, it'd be interesting to see of all the gospels, which one are people most familiar with and their favorite. I would say Matthew is obviously being the first one, probably the one that.

Nathan (: 29:29

Hmm.

Shawn (: 29:36

I don't know, maybe gets the most read, I don't know. So it kind of sets the table for us, but there's just so many amazing parables. There's so many amazing sayings and it's hard to really zero in on just a single one. I mean, I'm very partial to Matthew 13 where Jesus tells this parable.

Nathan (: 29:47

Hmm.

Shawn (: 30:05

about, I think it's Matthew 13, now that I've said it, I'm doubting myself. Yeah, the parable of the pearl of great price. I just, that's one of my favorite parables because to me, it speaks of the value that God has found in us. That's always been meaningful to me. I love, of course, Jesus, Jesus.

Nathan (: 30:13

Hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 30:35

invitation and exposition on the greatest commandment, right? To love the Lord your God. Again, this is not original to Jesus, although kind of it was if we understand that he was the originator of Old Testament law. You know, love and love your neighbor as yourself. These are, you know, really foundational building blocks. And then when we come to, you know, I'm probably stealing your thunder here with some of these, Nathan, but.

Nathan (: 30:39

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 31:05

You know, the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25, where what's the test come down to, so to speak, quote unquote, is how we treat other people and how we treat the least of these. And so those are just, I could go on for days, but those are highlights for me.

Nathan (: 31:08

Hmm. Hmm.

Right. Hmm.

Yeah, that's awesome. So you did touch on one of my highlights. Within the first four chapters of the book, we cover approximately 30 years of Jesus' life. So there's birth story stuff, there's John the Baptist ministry, which we hear.

Shawn (: 31:39

Mm.

Nathan (: 31:47

arrows pointing toward that prophetic arrows pointing toward that in Malachi, the previous book. And then Matthew 4, Jesus, there's the calling the disciples. And then there is what I would see as his inaugural speech, which in my sort of perspective on the text correlates to

correlates to the book of Deuteronomy. Moses is handing off the people of Israel to Joshua in a sense and giving them his farewell address as the people of Israel are going to enter the land of Canaan. And when the people of Israel enter the land of Canaan, I believe, and you can correct me here, but they were to have a group on one mountain and a group on another mountain.

Shawn (: 32:21

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 32:45

One group would call out the curses, one group would call out the blessings related to honoring the guidance, the laws that God had given them to establish a just society. And then you have Jesus, Matthew 4 talks about the temptation of Jesus and his engagement, early engagement with the disciples, and that sets the stage for this three chapter as it's...

Shawn (: 32:50

Hmm.

Nathan (: 33:14

record in the English Bible. Exposition. We see lots of pieces of Jesus interacting, but there are a fewer number of times where there's like one big chunk of teaching. And this inaugural address by Jesus, what we often refer to as the Sermon on the Mount, is major inaugural stuff where essentially he is, you find echoes.

very clear echoes and references to the ancient Hebrew story. And Jesus will say lines like, you've heard that it was said, but I tell you. So Jesus is kind of recapitulating, I think that's the right word, taking that story, repackaging it, and kind of reframing it with them through the messianic, through the God is love lens.

bringing people from where they have been. Again, we're looking at, as you mentioned, the story's building. This isn't just a single level story. We're building here, and Jesus, in part of that building, is taking old teaching, reframing it, and deepening the people's understanding of life. So one of the connections to the ancient Hebrew story and the impact Messiah brings as he,

tells that again, but with increased clarity to help the people understand God's intention more clearly.

Shawn (: 34:51

I love that. I love that. What I hear you saying is that Jesus in many ways in this period and throughout the book is setting himself up as the new Israel. He's gone through the wilderness. He's gone through the Jordan, so to speak. He's also kind of reframing himself or casting himself as a new Moses. You know, he's...

Nathan (: 35:06

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 35:18

giving the law again in many ways in the Sermon on the Mount. He's not doing away with the law, by the way, for those who might want to be tempted to think he is. He is actually deepening it. And he's showing the spiritual nature of the law, how it's always been God's intent to change the heart, not just deal with external behavior because...

Nathan (: 35:21

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 35:47

You're saying you've heard it was said that you shall not, you know, you shall not murder. But I say to you, what's going on in the heart is really what I'm worried about. You know, if you get angry with your brother, you say rock, you say, you know, basically you stupid fool, then you're, you're, you're in violation of that law. So that's, that's beautiful. I think kind of another point here is that, I mean, you couldn't really write a

Nathan (: 35:55

Right.

Right.

Shawn (: 36:16

You couldn't make the story up because it's so counterintuitive in many ways where, again, they were looking for a conquering king and Jesus stands up and in his inaugural speech, so to speak, everyone's hanging on his words. I mean, the drama is off the charts. Everyone's hanging on his words and he says, blessed are the poor in spirit and.

Nathan (: 36:27

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 36:46

I mean, again, we have a hard time appreciating this because we've been the products of 2 ,000 years of the Jesus story, but the degree to which that would have been so counterintuitive and revolutionary and not what people were expecting. And of course he goes on to say, blessed are those who mourn and blessed are the peacemakers. And it's like, no, no, no, no, that's not what the script had for.

Nathan (: 36:53

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 37:14

the story. The story was a conquering king who was going to overthrow people and you know all that. So it's just an unexpected turn for many people.

Nathan (: 37:16

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yes, yeah, so much going through my head. We're going to talk just briefly about you. You mentioned words from Matthew 25, which is kind of the second half of the of us. Another address on all of that, which was an elevated place and.

Shawn (: 37:46

Mm -hmm.

overlooking Jerusalem, the center of Jewish thinking and life and thought.

Nathan (: 37:52

Right.

Yep. So that would be in as far as I'm thinking, the second largest kind of single presentation of Jesus recorded in the book of Matthew covering two chapters. And by the way, for me, big argument for reading a Bible that has no chapter and verses makes such a difference when you're reading, say, the Sermon on the Mount, which we talked about in chapters five, six, and seven. When you pull all the verses and chapters out, it just flows so much better.

when you go to this Olivet Discourse, that's Matthew 24, 25, and you strip out all the verse and chapter markings, the story again flows together, becomes pretty obvious how the pieces link up, or more obvious anyway, how the pieces link up, that they're not some disjointed collection, there's actually a thematic thread through them.

Shawn (: 38:42

Mm.

And to your point, maybe you're going here, you know, this Olivet discourse, he's talking about, quote unquote, the signs of the times. And a part of that sermon is a story about, first of all, you know, the wise and foolish virgins who are prepared for the return, so to speak, and then as well as the talents. You know, what are we doing with the gifts we've been given? And then the culmination of this.

Nathan (: 38:56

Hmm.

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 39:18

is what are you doing to the least of these? And that's what it means in my, as I understand it, to be prepared, to be ready to be embraced by the Messiah when he returns. And so, you know, all those external signs, it's all well and good, but what really matters is am I going deeper with the Messiah? Am I allowing his Spirit to ground me in his love?

Nathan (: 39:21

Right.

Yes.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 39:49

am i treating the least of these with that love as well?

Nathan (: 39:52

That's right. Excellent. I think it's worth noting that, as you mentioned, that these are not new ideas. They're taught by Jesus and received by the people in some ways as new ideas. But these are as ancient as the story of God and his people. Or obviously God has forever reflected this, at least obvious to us in our understanding. But it's not new in the God story.

Shawn (: 40:09

Mm.

They're not new. Yeah, it's not new, but what they needed was somebody to kind of put them together in a way that God intended all along because they weren't getting it. And so Jesus, like he comes because, you know, in the Sermon on the Mount, they just marvel at his teaching because he didn't teach like the scribes and the Pharisees did. And they thought he had such great power and authority. And he's basically just saying this is what it was supposed to be all along. And there was nobody who

Nathan (: 40:25

Right. Yes.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 40:48

explained it that way and this is what I intended this is what my my plan was all on.

Nathan (: 40:49

Alright.

So Mark, just a few minutes here for Mark and Luke, but Mark then is in contrast to all three of Mark's brothers, if you would, not literal brothers, but book brothers in the gospel. He's very brief. That's for me, that's the single, like the single word in the book, if I was to pick a word that kind of stood out, was immediately. Yeah.

Shawn (: 41:08

Thank you.

Immediately, yep, over and over and over again. Mark's got places to go.

Nathan (: 41:23

And very, right, one of the things I remember from going through the Book of Mark sometime back was noticing, and I don't know if it's just, I don't know why it stood out to me in going through Mark, but how many times it feels like Jesus tries to escape the crowds, whether it's going across the sea away from them or sneaking into a house. There's these windows into the.

struggle of Jesus to find personal space. The people were mobbing him and it was like flash mobs everywhere he went. If somebody found out he was there, the crowds just kept building and he was this figure in the middle who's in some ways must have felt suffocated by the people just.

Shawn (: 41:54

Mmm.

Nathan (: 42:19

pressing in for, in many ways, everything they could get out of him. So there's several times where it's mentioned that he tries to just duck out of the crowd.

Shawn (: 42:31

Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, Mark is definitely trying to probably capture the breadth of Christ's ministry where there's so many people trying to connect with him and be healed by him and hear him. So he's really touching on the reality of Jesus, the width and breadth of his ministry.

Nathan (: 42:39

Hmm.

Right. So interestingly, Mark and John tell no piece of the birth story of Jesus. And so that's also interesting that Mark, in his telling, he's got a point, and for his point to be conveyed in the space he gives it, he doesn't tell that birth story. He starts right in with the John the Baptist story.

Shawn (: 43:06

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yep. I feel bad for Mark. I feel bad for Mark. He doesn't get a lot of love and attention, at least from this guy right here.

Nathan (: 43:25

And go ahead.

Although Mark, it's interesting, right? Mark does, in many ways there's follow -up on other, on stuff that's in Matthew, we find it kind of repeated showing up again, whichever's book, you know, we could talk about authorship, which we won't, but there's definitely lots of similarities content -wise. It's just Mark is briefer.

Shawn (: 43:35

Speaking of myself.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 44:02

But it's interesting with the brevity of Mark in mind that there are things he slows down for, such as the parable of the sower. He gives that the full telling. Another one that Mark tells is Mark five, Jesus healing a demon possessed man. Mark slows way down. I mean, most stories are just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And then Mark slows way down. The longest, I think,

Shawn (: 44:15

Mm -hmm.

I'm gonna go to bed.

Nathan (: 44:32

the longest door up there neck and neck with the other telling of this story of the healing of this demon possessed man. So I find that fascinating that there are these times where Mark slows down and tells longer stories in the middle of kind of his fast paced one moment to the next.

Shawn (: 44:39

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, that's a great point.

Nathan (: 44:59

Anything you'd highlight from Mark.

In addition, I should say.

Shawn (: 45:03

You know, again, I have to say, Nathan, that I don't give a lot of attention to Mark. Perhaps my most notable point is he's the only person who talks about the young man who ran away from Jesus naked. And when Jesus was in the, and there's, some have speculated that that was Mark himself that was the individual. I'm kind of saying a little,

Nathan (: 45:11

Hmm.

Shawn (: 45:33

tongue -in -cheek, but I honestly, I don't give Mark a lot of love. It's a quick read for me, because I'm so enamored with, you know, maybe I'll show my hand here. I debate whether Luke or John are my favorite gospel books. So I'm kind of always on the way. Matthew, okay, gives me a lot of the building blocks for the life of Jesus. And then I kind of rush through Mark.

Nathan (: 45:40

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 46:02

to get to Luke, which I really love, and then John, I do as well. But anyway, so I'm not much good with Mark. I mean, I'll be happy to meet Mark someday, but he'll have a lot more stories to tell, I'm sure.

Nathan (: 46:11

Right.

Yes, so we're not going to talk about John today except for this. John is a heavily theological book, probably more so than Matthew, Mark or Luke, just as a highlight. And Luke in some ways tells, I don't know, the narrative in Luke flows pretty good. And I don't know if it flows better than Matthew, definitely better than Mark, because Mark is kind of really...

Shawn (: 46:20

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Nathan (: 46:43

quick sound bites in some ways. But Luke does have a different way of telling the story. Interestingly, Luke expresses his purpose out of the gate in the introduction, the first lines of the book. Pay attention to those, because it's kind of an insight into the prophetic ministry, as well as Luke declaring his purpose and his process. So Luke.

Shawn (: 46:46

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Yep, he's kind of framing himself as a historian, you know? He's like, he's investigated, he's interviewed, he's trying to get a sense for what kind of really did take place. So, yeah, there's a certain historicity there that is declared more than maybe the other books. But like I said, I love Luke, man. I don't know if it's...

Nathan (: 47:17

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 47:41

It's close. I debate between Luke and John. You know, one of the parts that I love just the most about Luke is that I think more than any other other gospels, Jesus is eating with people. He's there's a number of stories where he is at the table. You know, the other gospels do highlight it a little bit, but you know, this is a major theme.

Nathan (: 47:45

That's awesome.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 48:10

in the book of Luke is that Jesus is being hosted by people and he's eating with them. And, you know, we'll get to it. I don't want to go right to this, but it has probably my single favorite chapter in the whole Bible. You simply cannot beat, you know, chapter I'm going to talk about, Nathan.

Nathan (: 48:32

I don't, I could guess, but I don't. Is it within the first 20 chapters? Yeah, go for it. We're good. Yeah, you can.

Shawn (: 48:39

It is so we're good to talk about Luke 15. You cannot beat Luke 15, the lost and found trilogy as I like to call it.

Nathan (: 48:44

Mmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 48:54

So anyway, I don't, you know, we can build up to that, but that's just, I love it.

Nathan (: 48:55

Yeah, no, that's good.

Right, so the first three, four chapters, basically by Luke 4, we have Jesus fully engaged in his ministry. Luke 4 starts similar to Matthew 4 in the sense that it covers the wilderness temptations of Jesus. And then,

Shawn (: 49:16

Just to note, of course, there is a different genealogy between math and look. So that's a question that would be an interesting discussion. But just don't be thrown off by that. It doesn't mean that one was right and the other was wrong. I don't have a airtight argument as to what the difference is. But it doesn't bother me very much. But just note that there are differences there.

Nathan (: 49:22

Right, yes, there's a different one.

Right.

Right. I think the bother comes when we assume that the inspiration of scripture means it's absolutely the perfect, that something that has God's hand on it has to be an absolutely flawless rendition of facts, inerrant, right?

Shawn (: 50:07

And errant, and errant is the word that a lot like to use and I don't believe per se in errancy as many of my Christian brothers and sisters define it.

Nathan (: 50:21

Right. Mm hmm. Yep. So that is another piece for another podcast, but that's where a lot of the hang up comes is a, uh, in our understanding of a mischaracterization of the prophetic process. And the gospels go a long ways to sort of unsettling that characterization of it. So in that sense, looking for the differences or noticing them as you read.

Shawn (: 50:35

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yep.

Nathan (: 50:49

does help us see, because it's one of the few times in scripture we have such parallel stories about the same event. Of course, we have them in other parts, but the Jesus story is in some ways, it's a short life, 33 some years, and to have four separate books, it does kind of highlight uniquely the differences that the authors bring to the story.

Shawn (: 51:17

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Nathan (: 51:22

Yeah, so talk to us about that. You're about Luke 15 that you love so much.

Shawn (: 51:27

Oh man, I could talk for days about it and I've been tempted if I had more time to write a book just on it. Yeah, you know, we have the three stories of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son. And what I love about it is that we sometimes jump over this is that Jesus is directly responding to a complaint from the religious leaders. They complain.

Nathan (: 51:53

Hmm.

Shawn (: 51:57

because he's eating with sinners. And he explains what he's doing in these three parables. And there's echoes, you know, going back to the previous part of the story, I think we touched on it before. There's echoes of Ezekiel 34, where God had said that the shepherds of Israel were not feeding their sheep. They weren't searching for their sheep when they were scattered.

Nathan (: 51:59

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 52:26

And Jesus is essentially saying, listen, that's what I'm doing here. I am, I am. And then in that prophecy, God said, listen, I myself will search for my sheep. And since you all aren't doing it, I'm going to do it. And that's what, that's what he's doing here in Luke 15. He is declaring in some ways he's indicting the religious leaders because they're complaining that he's doing the thing that they.

Nathan (: 52:36

Hmm.

Bye.

Shawn (: 52:55

should have been doing. And so Jesus is saying, that's what I'm doing, guys. This is what I'm here for. I'm here to reclaim and find the lost sheep of Israel. I'm here to reclaim and to rehabilitate the lost children of Israel. Y 'all should have been doing it, but since you weren't, that's what I'm doing. And so that's a connection between the previous part of the story. But just, it shows.

Nathan (: 52:56

Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 53:23

the heart and the character of God so beautifully. You know, that parable of the lost son, as we often call it, the prodigal son. You know, some have noted that it would be more appropriate to call it the prodigal father or the prodigal God. Prodigal means wasteful, right? Somebody who goes above and beyond because the father gives his son his inheritance, by the way, before he died, which is just amazing.

Nathan (: 53:25

Hmm.

Mm -hmm. Hmm.

Shawn (: 53:50

basically saying, yeah, you think I'm dead to you? Well, instead of throwing you out, because going back to, again, Old Testament, there was laws regulating what would happen with a rebellious son. A rebellious son should be stoned, and instead the character of the father gives the son what he wants, and he goes off and wastes all that he...

Nathan (: 54:06

Hmm.

Shawn (: 54:19

has been given and then he comes back and guess what? He gets the family credit card again, gets the ring put on his finger. And so it's just a story of a God, a father who just keeps giving and giving and giving and giving and giving. And then of course there's the older son who has been living at home the whole time, but he says, I've been serving you these many years. Like he's living as a slave in his father's home.

Nathan (: 54:25

Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 54:48

And his father says, you didn't understand. This whole time, all that I had was yours. And the older son thought he was working to earn his way. And the father says, no, no, no, no. Everything that I have is yours. Because the beginning part of the story, it says that he divided to them, both older and younger son, their inheritance. So the older son had possession of it all along and didn't realize it. So anyway, I could go on and on and on, Nathan, but that's.

Nathan (: 54:51

Hmm. Mm -hmm.

Shawn (: 55:17

That's why I love this story so much.

Nathan (: 55:19

Yeah, good stuff. And not too far after that, the final week of Jesus begins kind of with a bang in the encounter of Zacchaeus and Jericho, sometime around that.

Shawn (: 55:33

Another story of Jesus eating with sinners. Yep.

Nathan (: 55:36

Right. Right. Yeah. Beautiful story of God's love. So you, um, we'll have to finish Luke next week.

Shawn (: 55:45

Mm -hmm. Let's do it, man.

Nathan (: 55:47

But that is all for now. Yeah. So thanks for joining. We hope that you are having an incredible journey through scripture and seeing God more beautifully as you do so. Until next time, lean into the love -shaped life.

AI transcript provided by Riverside.fm