Ezekiel 24—Zechariah 10 with Shawn & Nathan

Nathan (: 00:01

Hey, it's Nathan and Shawn again. We want to welcome you back to the 13 week Bible season two, we’re in Episode 11, ahead of week 10's reading as we continue this exciting, rapid journey through the Bible in just 13 weeks. We're both enjoying our read and learning new things along the way, we hope the same for you. Today we're previewing the rest of Ezekiel and then moving through Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos.

Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Hegai, and most of Zechariah. This will bring us to the edge of the Jesus story with the first day of next week landing us in Matthew. We'll spend the final three weeks in the Jesus and early church stories. Wow. It's been quite a ride so far. Hey, Sean.

Shawn (: 00:50

Yeah, as you're firing off all those names, I feel like I'm just kind of in a children's memorization, memorizing the names of the Bibles, Bible exercise, all those tongue twisters, you know, Nahum, Habakkuk, Stephanie, all that.

Nathan (: 01:09

Right. It's incredible. Today we're, um, 13 full or partial books in conversation. So this week's reading is the most books in one week to date. I haven't checked with the, like the small books in the New Testament. I'm not sure how fast those go, but.

Shawn (: 01:17

Mmm.

Most...

New test, yeah. So we're getting a lot of bang for our buck today.

Nathan (: 01:32

Yes, that's right. And I just wanted to observe that folks who are reading through or listening through or going through the Bible in some way, you've been at this for 10 weeks. And the best is still just around the corner with the Jesus story starting next week.

Shawn (: 01:46

Mm.

Mmm, finally a laugh.

Nathan (: 01:55

Yes, alas, we'll be there. So keep sticking with the story. I guess the one thing I want to hold out, which you're probably seeing already, is that if we stick with the story, some of the questions we had in the past start to resolve or find answers as we continue with the story.

Shawn (: 02:15

Mm. Absolutely.

Nathan (: 02:18

Yeah, you got anything that you would add at this point?

Shawn (: 02:20

No, not at this point. Not in a introductory thought. We just, yeah, let's get into the text, Nathan.

Nathan (: 02:24

Okay.

Awesome. So one of the things I noticed or two of the things before I'm going to do a quick review of the books But because we got off that last week. We just jumped right in and had a great conversation But this week gonna do the sort of the habitual review that we've done that I've done earlier But a couple things one is what has struck me in this section of reading is that God Clearly has a

plan for Israel that's unique. Like you read through and find, I think it's Ezekiel where Ezekiel, where God speaking to the nations in Ezekiel says, I'm going to restore you as well, or I'm going to wipe you out. Like there's kind of a mix of things, but Israel always is, at the end of the day, there's the sense that God is going to do something great with Israel.

Shawn (: 03:28

Yeah, that's absolutely, that's a thread that's woven throughout scripture that, you know, as we kind of, I think I talked about last week, there is a sense in which God is, has an exclusive call on people, that's the pattern. And it's not because God loves them more, it's not because God, they're inherently better, it's because God has specific purposes he's trying to accomplish in the world and he's using...

Nathan (: 03:43

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 03:55

a people to accomplish those, or hopefully he's trying to get them to accomplish them, but as we've seen, it doesn't always go very smoothly.

Nathan (: 04:05

Right, and there's a lot to think about along those points. I think I'll leave that for perhaps someday in the future. I think it's worth noting that this theme does continue into the Jesus and early church stories, but it becomes clear that God wasn't after a genetic, sort of pure genetic people. We do see sort of that genetic language in the beginning, but it's clear as the story develops that God's actually looking for people who reflect

his character of goodness and identify with him as the one they want to live their lives in harmony with rather than being able to look up their genes on a website and fit within a certain family genome.

Shawn (: 04:55

Yeah, that's a really good point and as you said, that will be kind of explicitly pointed, you know, brought out in Paul for example, who says it's not those who are Israelites of the flesh, but you know, those who are by faith, who are God's, you know, called.

Nathan (: 05:05

Mm-hmm.

But it's a fascinating story to follow, so stay tuned. There is something there that again could use a whole lot of discussion. Idolatry comes up again and I just, I guess I'm mentioning this sort of introductory comments, but I was just kind of very aware that idolatry,

is a major thread that continues all the way through these, what have been called minor prophets that we'll be working through today. All right, let's do a quick recap. Ezekiel 24 to 40, Ezekiel's messages to Israel and surrounding peoples, especially Egypt entire, then 40 to 48 focus on God's magnificent dream for his people that can be, if they want it. Daniel.

It's written by the Hebrew exile Daniel from within the Babylonian Empire with the exception of chapter four, which is written by the great Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel is a unique book among the ancient Hebrew prophets, although it bears some similarities to Ezekiel. The most closely related book, perhaps not surprisingly, is the final book of scripture in the form we have it, and that is Revelation. Daniel's ministry begins during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon and Jehoiakim

or Eliah came at birth in Jerusalem. Daniel's primary focus is the unfolding saga of empires beginning with Babylon. He especially focuses on how these coming empires will impact God's people, pointing to the ultimate establishment of an eternal global civilization set up by God himself. Hosea speaks to the kingdom of Judah, as well as Israel.

and his ministry overlaps with Isaiah, Amos, Micah, and perhaps another of the prophets. He's among the Hebrew people in the land of Israel. Joel offers a call to repentance and a dire warning of consequences. His book's timing is uncertain, though it may be related to a plague of locusts. Amos begins in the year of King Isaiah of Judah, before the downfall of the Northern Kingdom.

His ministry overlaps with Isaiah, Hosea, Micah. And there may be another one in there, but there is definitely overlap. Obadiah, it's a single chapter and focused on warnings, directed the people of Edom, the descendants of Esau. Jonah, well-known book, and his message is directed toward the people of Nineveh. Micah is likely a contemporary of Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, et cetera. He too carries a warning to God's people.

and also includes Messianic prophecies. Nahum comes between Micah and Habakkuk, warning of the downfall of Nineveh. Habakkuk, prophetic challenge to God for his use of the wicked Babylonians to punish Israel. Book that took on greater significance in this run through. Habakkuk, his ministry is around the time of Daniel, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

Zephaniah takes place during the reign of Josiah, thus overlapping with Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel as well. Habakkuk might be in that parallel as well. Hey guys, written after the return of the Babylonian exiles, urging them to be faithful in the work of rebuilding the temple, his ministry overlaps Daniel, Zechariah, Ezra, and Nehemiah. Then we get to Zechariah, the first ten chapters.

His ministry is focused also among the exiles who have returned to rebuild, and his ministry overlaps with Haggai, Daniel, Ezra, and Nehemiah. So a bit of a quick and dirty recap.

Shawn (: 09:05

Wow, Nathan, that was a sprint. You, I'm impressed as well that you were able to recite that all from memory. That's incredible. No, that's, yeah, no, I'm just kidding. I think, I think this kind of speaks to one of the benefits of, again, a quick read, because, you know, there are nuances in these little books, but largely it's.

Nathan (: 09:10

Hahaha.

Ah, yes, from my notes.

Shawn (: 09:36

it's broadly themed, like the general message is, you have done wicked, come back to God. That's what I take from a lot of these books, these minor prophets. Again, there's more to it than that, but a quick read, that's the pervasive message that I get from reading these books.

Nathan (: 09:38

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I would say that may not, that's not that much of an oversimplification.

Shawn (: 10:11

Yeah.

Nathan (: 10:11

It's God is really truly working to bring his people around before things just completely fall apart. Of course, some of those are in the rebuilding side after the exile, but most of the prophets that were mentioned are exile or pre-exile prophets. God again, voice after voice after voice, which speaks to the goodness of God, calling his people.

Shawn (: 10:21

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 10:43

Calling his people to loyalty, to doing right. You're muted, Sean.

Shawn (: 10:54

Now, of course, there are ones like Jonah, where it's not, you are my people, come back to me. It's a message to the other nations, in this case, Nineveh, the Assyrians. So there is that element of God's mercy for other peoples. Going back to the question of genetics, it's not a question of genetics. It's God reaching out to...

Nathan (: 10:58

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 11:20

surrounding nations. So there's some of that as well, but by and large it's mostly directed toward you know Israel or Judah as the case may be of that invitation to repentance and to return to him.

Nathan (: 11:36

Hmm. So let's jump into Ezekiel. We are, I think we're starting in 24 through the end of Ezekiel. Anything that stood out to you in Ezekiel, Sean?

Shawn (: 11:49

Well, I mean, I go right to my favorite, maybe, well, I don't know if it's my favorite chapter in Ezekiel, but at least in this section, well, I should say there's two chapters that are my favorite. So, Ezekiel 34 is this beautiful messianic prophecy in many ways, and I think we're going to hear echoes of this in Jesus' ministry where Jesus, God is rebuking.

the shepherds of Israel and they have not cared for his people. They've exploited his people. They've neglected his people. He basically says, you've been terrible shepherds. He says, you know what I'm going to do because of that? He says, I myself am going to search for my sheep. You guys have not done a good job, so I'm going to take over. We come to Luke 15 and that is the background, I think.

to Jesus' parable of the lost sheep. When he, and he's spending time with, you know, the sinners and the tax collectors and the leaders, they, you know, grumble about it. And Jesus is basically saying, listen, I'm doing what you were supposed to be doing. So I'm searching for the sheep. So that's one of my favorite chapters in Ezekiel. And then the other one is Ezekiel 36, where

Nathan (: 12:51

Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 13:17

you know, God is, and I see you smiling Nathan, because I know you probably like this as well, where God is basically saying to Israel or Judah, you know, you have profaned my name among the Gentiles. You have made me look bad. And that's what bad religion does. It doesn't simply, you know, make us look bad. It profanes God's name among the surrounding nations. And

Nathan (: 13:34

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 13:47

It's just a tragic, you know, as Brendan Manning famously said, the single greatest cause of atheism today is people proclaiming Jesus with their lips and then denying him by their life. And it's like very, very sobering and confronting, where, you know, it speaks, by the way, to God's humility, where he allows his name to be tarnished, as it were, by

his people. But then of course he promises them that he is going to give them a new heart and he's going to take their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh and it's such a beautiful promise. And anyway, those are the things that jump out at me in those chapters.

Nathan (: 14:36

Yes, and I think along those lines, the idea that the sanctuary was a place for God's name. It's an interesting thing I think we talked about, but that came up for sure in the early weeks of the reading, and here we find it again that God's name, his character, who he is, a radical lover, that is the thing that.

Shawn (: 14:47

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 15:03

really matters and his people have a responsibility when they claim association to him to hold that character and demonstrate it because there's profound implications for misrepresenting as you've mentioned.

Shawn (: 15:20

Well this is really what it means to take the name of the Lord in vain. You know, this is carrying that name and yet making it look bad and basically carrying God's name through the mud. Yes, it's probably, we shouldn't say, oh my God, you know, I'm not encouraging that, but I think the larger, you know, going back to Exodus 20, the larger...

Nathan (: 15:23

Hmm.

Shawn (: 15:49

original meaning was don't take on my name and then portray my character in this way because there's just dire consequences and again, it's not because God has an inferiority complex. We've talked about this repeatedly. It's not because God just has a craving to be praised or to look good. It's because he knows that optimal

Nathan (: 15:56

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 16:17

Human flourishing can only come about when people are clear on who he is.

Nathan (: 16:22

Mm-hmm. Yes, I want to read those words of promise in Ezekiel 36. Starting at 25, I will sprinkle clean water on you. You shall be clean from all your uncleanness and from all your idols. I will cleanse you. Remember that theme of idolatry is pervasive and hear God say, OK, I'm going to do this. I'll do this for you.

Shawn (: 16:29

Mm.

Mm.

And just to underscore this for one second, in the Hebrew it actually emphasizes the I, like I will do this. It's like a double I in the Hebrew but we won't get into the weeds too much.

Nathan (: 16:58

Hmm.

Thank you, Sean. I will give you a new heart, a new spirit I will put within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Shawn (: 17:28

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

Nathan (: 17:31

Yeah, and I think some echoes, new covenant echoes too, not necessarily worded the same as we see it, say in Jeremiah or quoted in Hebrews, but it's thematically identical.

Shawn (: 17:35

Mmm.

Mm-hmm, absolutely, absolutely.

Nathan (: 17:46

So, and I think the other thing that...

strikes me from the book of Ezekiel is just how often God explains the reason for the way history unfolds, the reason that certain things are going to happen to his people and then to other nations related to this idea that the nations have an opportunity to do right.

to make the best of their opportunity, when cruelty and when moral collapse takes place, God's relationship to them changes in a way, in some way he shifts how he relates to them and their fortunes shift.

Shawn (: 18:47

Mm.

Nathan (: 18:49

I don't know if there's a better way to explain that, but I think that's just interesting. And for me, what struck me is that with Daniel in Revelation, this way that God relates to the nations that's kind of explained in detail in Ezekiel and some of the other prophets is not relegated to the ancient Hebrew people and that timeframe, but is...

the nature of human history and the rise and fall of civilizations.

Shawn (: 19:25

That's a good point and certainly that's going to come out loud and clear as you kind of alluded to in the book of Daniel. We're very aware of world history and the surrounding people.

Nathan (: 19:36

Mm-hmm.

Right. One line that was fascinating, if a nation is not righteous, should it have a right to occupy the land? That's a concept. Not sure that one's a quote, but it's a concept that comes up on a handful of occasions named specifically where God's like, this is my land. If a nation is not righteous and it's just brutal and wicked, do they have a right to be here? Anyway, there's a lot there that we're

Shawn (: 19:50

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, kind of like, yeah, God's the landlord of the whole world, and so he's like, listen, if they're not being good tenants, then I have the right to kick them out. But, yeah.

Nathan (: 20:11

Right.

Yeah. So we will get lost in Ezekiel if we don't move forward. I would say 40 through the end, Isaiah 40 through the end of the book. Pretty fascinating. What do you think?

Shawn (: 20:38

Mmhmm. Yeah, I don't know exactly how to relate to it, I'll be honest with you. It's just kind of like an overview of the temple and worship and I think in some ways it's probably looking forward to, you know, it's kind of apocalyptic in some ways in the sense of

fulfillment of all things and maybe it has a future application. You know, talks about the healing waters and the trees, maybe that has echoes of Eden and Eden restored. But yeah, there's a lot in there that could definitely be slowed down and soaked for all their worth.

Nathan (: 21:28

I mean, my take on that is that basically God was holding out his dream for Israel. Here's what can be. If you want it, here's what can be. And I just, I don't know when I read it through, especially 43, it seems to be a literal plan that God had. I mean, he did make water come from the rock, right, during the Exodus. So it seems quite

Shawn (: 21:39

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 21:55

that this plan for a temple out of which a river would flow that would sweeten the waters on the way and be a place for lots of fishing and trees to grow along its banks. It seems like that's not a far shot. That if Israel had really wanted it, that they literally could have been a kind of Edenic civilization. Not just morally, but physically.

Shawn (: 22:16

Yeah, yeah. No, it's an interesting...

Yeah, no it's an interesting mental exercise, kind of the what if, like how would have things played out if Israel had been faithful, if Israel had fulfilled God's great dreams for them. You know, what would the world look like right now? I don't know, it's a very interesting mental exercise.

Nathan (: 22:30

Mm-hmm.

It is.

Well, and you take this, right, the beginning chapters of Ezekiel are pretty foreboding. Ezekiel has almost a dark, not dark in morally, but just almost a depressed kind of feel to it at the beginning because it's pretty harsh, straight, dramatic warnings. And then you have this at the end. So Ezekiel starts with that heaviness, and then at the end,

Shawn (: 23:02

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 23:12

There's like this magnificent painting of what can be where God is through Ezekiel both warning and then at the end saying, listen guys, if you'll get this, I have big, big dreams for you that you can't even wrap your head around it, but here's what it could potentially look like if you want to get on board with me, your future can look dramatically different. I mean, we're talking about people who were starving in the city at.

during those last days, like just miserable existence. And God's saying, listen, if you'll just get on board with me, I have so much for you.

Shawn (: 23:49

Yeah, it's almost like the mirror image of the book of Genesis where it starts out with the glory, it starts out with Eden, and then by the end, Joseph's in a tomb. There's death, there's sadness, there's darkness. So yeah, it's like the antithesis of Genesis in some ways.

Nathan (: 23:57

Hmm.

Hmm. Well, we got to move on to Daniel. Favorite from Daniel. Daniel is quite a different book. Definitely speaking, I think you met we mentioned like Jonah speaks to the Ninevites. Daniel, I think, is a special message to the Babylonians and the Medo-Persians does include messages to God's people, but it's not as focused on God's people as it is the land in which Daniel lives.

Shawn (: 24:16

Hmm

Mm-hmm.

What the hell?

Well, you and I come from a faith community where Daniel is a huge deal. What's fascinating though, if you step outside of our kind of our understanding, not our understanding, but our context, is that a lot of people just don't know what to do with Daniel, beginning with Jews. If you go to the what is called the Tanakh or the Hebrew Bible.

Nathan (: 24:41

as an exile.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Shawn (: 25:10

book of Daniel is right in the middle of the prophet and in their ordering of the Tanakh and presumably this is the way Jesus related to it as well because this is the way it was constructed from a long time ago. Daniel is actually in the section called the writing. So it's like in the poetry section. So they're not sure what to do with Daniel.

Nathan (: 25:30

Hmm.

Shawn (: 25:40

know if he's a prophet they don't know if it's a book that's predicting future events. To them it's like poetry. And then you know I have many Jewish friends and whenever I've sat down to talk to them about Daniel they're just like their eyes glaze over and they're like I have no idea what the book of Daniel. Like one of my rabbi friends was like I don't know that I've really read the book of Daniel. It's like

Nathan (: 26:02

Hmm.

Shawn (: 26:09

What in the world? And then not to mention the rest of the Christian world is kind of, yeah, there's a few stories like Daniel and the Lion's Den. Everybody knows that story, but beyond that, it's just like, yeah, I don't know what to do about the Book of Daniel. It seems like a lot of, well, like Ezekiel, there's some strange things going on with different beasts and all this. So yeah, Daniel, again, you and I, and probably some of our listeners, kind of like...

Nathan (: 26:30

Hmm.

Shawn (: 26:39

We know Daniel like the back of our hand, not that we understand all of it, but like we're very familiar with it. And I think that's good, but I think it's also good to try to read it with fresh eyes and not all of the assumptions that we've inherited.

Nathan (: 26:51

Hmm.

Hmm. That's a great reminder, I think, to all of us to try to come back to Scripture fresh when we do. This goes along with Ezekiel 28 in the sense that Ezekiel 28 seems to sort of step outside the flow of everything else in Ezekiel and speak to larger realities in the struggle between good and evil. And that

Definitely seems to be a flavor that comes into Daniel almost like Daniel is the curtain pulling back for a moment on history to come But speaking of reading it with new eyes the last time I went through Daniel more slowly I was really impressed by how much It speaks to the goodness of God reaching out to the heart of a pagan Emperor or King

Shawn (: 27:49

Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 27:50

This Babylonian, not just Nebuchadnezzar, but Darius as well. Belshazzar, right, that there is this big part of the book that's, again, not just prophecy like we have in Jonah speaking to the people of Nineveh, although, although that's also a redemptive push for the people of Nineveh. So I just think for me that was a thing that struck me is that there's a big chunk of this book that is a book to win the heart of.

Shawn (: 27:56

Mm-hmm, El Shazar, he's trying to reach, yep.

Nathan (: 28:20

peoples in a non-Hebrew, what would be called generically a pagan civilization. Like God's like, hey, my people don't want me, but here, I'm here for you too. And I would love for you to know me.

Shawn (: 28:23

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I think also in Daniel, we get maybe, I don't know if I'd say for the first time, but there's definitely, again, pulling back the curtain, he points to the fact that there are these forces that externally, or maybe even, you know, probably I would interpret somewhat even internally, that are trying to frustrate the

Nathan (: 28:48

Mmm.

Shawn (: 29:01

plans of God, the ways of God. And it's not just, yes, you know, my people have rebelled and I'm calling them back to me. There's that sense in Daniel 9 where Daniel is pouring out his heart to God and saying, we have sinned, we have broken covenant with you. But there's also these nefarious powers that are trying to frustrate

Nathan (: 29:04

Mm-hmm

Shawn (: 29:30

not only the plans of God, but the character of God. And we see that especially in Daniel chapter seven and eight, where there's this little horn, as it's called, that is kind of trying to cast down God's name, so to speak. And my sense is that, again, it's maybe not necessarily an external force. This is maybe a religious power that...

Nathan (: 29:34

Mm-hmm

Hmm.

Hmm

Shawn (: 29:59

is blaspheming God, you know, that term is used. He has blasphemous names, you know, and he's kind of making himself equal with God. And Daniel's like, well, how long, you know, he overhears this conversation. Maybe I'm getting ahead of the story here, Nathan, so forgive me, but he hears this discussion between angels, like how long is this going to last where there's this

Nathan (: 30:02

Hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 30:28

you know, blaspheming of God's name and maybe counterfeiting God's name. And he finally hears this, well, 2300 days and then it's going to be set right. And I think that's fascinating because it kind of does pull back the curtain on these larger realities taking place where God understands that there are these nefarious forces that are trying to counteract.

Nathan (: 30:38

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 30:57

his character and his ways.

Nathan (: 30:59

Yeah, and it occurs to me that Daniel references both angelic good forces in Daniel, but also references resistance, demonic forces in his book. So I think it's valuable to note that the rhythm of history,

Shawn (: 31:11

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 31:26

in God's engagement with the human story that we find fairly detailed in Ezekiel is how this thing unfolds. We just don't have as much of a detailed narration of it when we get sort of beyond the return of the exiles. Once we come to the end of Malachi, we have sort of a very limited telling

prophetic narrative, but it's following the same sort of interaction process of nations having an opportunity to do right and then Whatever they do with that has implications for what happens next The other thing it's interesting is we do have Babylon in Ezekiel the Babylonian Empire

And when we get to the book of Revelation, and even some in Daniel, we find another power that's similar to Babylon, but operates in a more spiritual or religious realm, as opposed to the largely political realm of the Ezekiel Babylon. That's a lot for us to talk about. And so I would say follow our course catalog here at Love Shaped Life because

Shawn (: 32:42

Yeah, definitely.

Nathan (: 32:48

We have in our plans to specifically dial into Daniel, Revelation, some of this prophetic storyline in scripture. So keep your eye on our course catalog. We'll be adding.

Shawn (: 33:02

And I'll just point this out, because this point, whenever I read Daniel, it jumps out at me. And it jumped out at me again. Daniel itself says, at least parts of it says, this vision or this prophecy or this book is speaking of the time of the end. So, he's like, seal it up, tie it up, like put it away, put it in the bottom drawer of your desk.

Nathan (: 33:24

Hmm.

Shawn (: 33:32

It's for a future time. And Daniel, like Daniel himself is like, I have no idea what I've seen. I don't understand it. And it's almost like, according to the narrative, like God's like, yeah, you're not supposed to understand it because it doesn't apply to you. It's not about you. And so when I've read that, every time I read it through, I'm just like, oh, okay, well, that's very fascinating that there is, at least according to the book, it applies to

Nathan (: 33:33

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 34:00

From Daniel's day, it applies to some future period, and according to the way it's articulated, the time of the end, quote unquote. So that's interesting to me.

Nathan (: 34:10

Hmm.

Yeah, we got to move on. I will refrain from speaking further. Hosea, we're shifting gears. Hosea, again, as a reminder, is written by a prophet who lives among the Hebrew people and before the Assyrian captivity, so right around the time just before the people of Israel fall to the Assyrians.

Shawn (: 34:16

Yeah we do. Hehehehe.

Nathan (: 34:39

Kingdom of Judah, again, remember, lasts a little bit longer, falls to the Babylonians. Hosea is before that time as well. The big thing for me in Hosea is how Hosea's kind of, his specialty, if you would, is God using him to speak to the divine romance, if you would, of God with his people. And the stinging betrayal,

Shawn (: 34:48

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 35:09

that comes when his people play the prostitute. That prostitute language isn't new, we've seen it in Ezekiel, et cetera, but Hosea, it's kind of a broken love story.

Shawn (: 35:16

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. You know, the version I was reading put it in very graphic and jolting terms. God says to Hosea, go marry a whore. And that's the term that the version I use. Whoa, okay, here, this is a strong language. But that's the message of it. It's one of the craziest stories. And I think, I remember a few years ago, there was even a Hollywood movie based upon Hosea, or you know,

ish, where God's just like, yeah, go marry a prostitute because that's what my relationship has been like with you guys. And then he, throughout the book, he's trying to communicate his love for his people. And the prostitute, Gomer, she is unfaithful after the marriage. So he's like, go get her again and go get her again. And just, again, it speaks to the...

Nathan (: 36:03

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 36:23

faithfulness of God and his promise to like remain Committed and in covenant relationship and he ultimately does promise that There will come a time where you're gonna be faithful and that's quite remarkable Yeah

Nathan (: 36:24

Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm.

It is. Yeah, I love the picture and this is in the early part of the book, but the idea of God saying, I'll draw you back in. I'll win your heart. I'm going to stay at this until I win your heart and you realize how beautiful I am.

Shawn (: 36:53

Mm-hmm.

And you will no longer call me my master, but you will call me my husband. So the term for master there by the way is bail. You will no longer call me my bail. You will call me my husband. It's beautiful.

Nathan (: 37:07

Hmm.

It is beautiful. That's awesome. So we're on to Joel and Joel is a hard book to sort of locate in the historical narrative. I don't know if you have any insight on that.

Shawn (: 37:32

I do not have special insight into Joel. No, I like Joel, seems like a nice guy, but I'm not real well versed in Joel and his ministry. And like you say, there's like basically no historical context. We know he's the son of Hesuel, but that's all we know. We don't know, he doesn't introduce the book by saying it was in the year of, third year of.

Josiah or whatever, so we're just kind of get after it. But again, the basic message is come back to me.

Nathan (: 38:08

Right. The one thing in Joel that you'll notice, there's a couple of prophetic elements, specifically one related to the prophetic gift coming on at some point, future of Joel's writing, there is this idea of the prophetic gift being poured out on people. And it's kind of unique to Joel. I suppose that's kind of the thing that.

Shawn (: 38:27

Yeah.

Nathan (: 38:37

in some circles is the common Joel reference is that idea.

Shawn (: 38:42

Certainly the New Testament brings that one out. My spirit will be poured on all flesh, and your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. You know, your sons and daughters will prophesy. Daughters as well, Nathan, daughters as well.

Nathan (: 38:54

Mm-hmm.

That's right. And that was used at the time of Pentecost as a fulfillment of the words of Joel.

Shawn (: 39:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

That's right.

Nathan (: 39:10

So Amos, Amos is, he is located in history. He's in the year of King Isaiah of Judah. And also like Hosea speaks before the downfall of the Northern Kingdom, which is the 10 tribes that had separated earlier in the story.

Shawn (: 39:23

Mm-hmm.

So that makes him a contemporary of Isaiah. And I think, you know, although it seems trivial, those things can be helpful in filling out the picture. Because when you think of what was going on during Isaiah's day, you can jump over to Amos and say, okay, here's another take on a lot of the same stuff.

Nathan (: 39:33

That's right, yep.

Right.

Exactly, and it helps as you know, some of the other books, including the historical books, Kings and Chronicles, give you some sense of the history. And so as you're reading, it helps you to know, okay, this is the time frame, the situation into which the prophet was speaking. So it's not sort of just a voice ringing from the historical past somewhere.

Shawn (: 40:04

Mm-hmm. That's right.

Nathan (: 40:18

but actually speaking to a specific known historical situation as well as we can know it this far in the future.

Shawn (: 40:27

Mm-hmm. That's right.

Nathan (: 40:29

And I don't know, I don't have anything specific that shows up in Amos that is so much unique. It is a book of warning. I think the big thing to me is how God sends multiple prophets simultaneously to try to stop this downward spiral His people are on. That for me is an amazing thing.

that he joins the voices of other prophets, even though he's got a small book, he's speaking simultaneously to try to prevent this catastrophe.

Shawn (: 41:12

Yep.

Nathan (: 41:13

So then there's Obadiah, interesting book, and it is actually a single book. And this one speaks to, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I guess they're all single books, single chapter, thank you. Speaking to the downfall or the judgment of the people of Edom who are the descendants of Esau.

Shawn (: 41:15

Thank you.

to go chapter.

Hehehe...

Yeah, fascinating, because again, those are not, the Edomites are not Israel, they're not Israelites, they have a common ancestor, but they are not, you know, in the direct line of Israel. So yeah, God's judgment on Edom.

Nathan (: 41:48

Mm-hmm.

And then we're into Jonah. Jonah is only a little bit longer than Obadiah, although it's divided into four chapters in most Bibles. I don't think we need to talk a lot about that story. The one thing I would say is my last close look at the book of Jonah drew me to the conclusion that Jonah wrote this story as a testimony after his experience. And I hadn't really thought of it that way. That may be obvious to some, but

Shawn (: 42:13

That's it.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 42:31

that Jonah was really persuaded of God's goodness after his experience and shares his troubled journey as a testimony to God and his goodness and an urging of others to follow in his footsteps. Not the running away footsteps, but the recognizing God is good.

Shawn (: 42:32

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. It's kind of a funny way to end, if that's where Jonah got to, because either we lost the last chapter or it's not really this climactic aha moment. It's kind of like Jonah's reluctant to acknowledge God's goodness and mercy. But yeah, he doesn't make himself look very good in the story, you know, if he's the author of it. But that's...

Nathan (: 43:08

Right?

Right?

No, he doesn't.

Shawn (: 43:27

That's cool too, like, you know, we see the warts of all of God's people. Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 43:35

Mm-hmm. So fascinating story. I think we'll just leave it at that. We'll let you read it. You've heard the story of the fish before so Right and so then we're in Micah is also a contemporary with Isaiah Hosea and Amos and So he's speaking to is to Let's see speaking to Judah before the Babylonian exile also during the reign of Hezekiah

Shawn (: 43:42

Everybody knows the story of Jonah.

Nathan (: 44:05

And seeking again another voice, just really working to turn the tide, if possible, from the impending collapse.

Shawn (: 44:06

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And you know, throughout these prophetic books, there are warnings, but there's also these beautiful promises of what it could look like if they did return. And that day says the Lord, this is Micah 4.6, and that day says the Lord, I will assemble the lame, I will gather the outcasts and those whom I have afflicted. I will make the lame a remnant and the outcasts a strong nation. So the Lord

Nathan (: 44:29

Hmm.

Shawn (: 44:46

will reign over them in Mount Zion from now on forever. So there's a beautiful imagery of what it could be. And then of course, you probably would get to this part, but Micah 6, 8 is a very well-known prophetic passage where God is, please do Nathan, please do. I don't, yep.

Nathan (: 45:06

Well, can I jump in before that, before you read that? Micah 5-2, you Bethlehem Afrata, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth from me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from old, from ancient days. So you mentioned on one hand, there's these prophecies of a bright future.

Shawn (: 45:18

Mmm.

Mmm.

Mmmm

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 45:34

But then also messianic pieces tucked in there here in Micah 5. There's that messianic hope. And not just, you know, there's of course we could talk about another king, but we don't have the privilege of just seeing it as another king or some kind of new deliverer like another Samson or something. This one's unique because Micah includes that line that,

Shawn (: 45:53

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 46:02

He's been coming forth from of old, so we know this is much more right. So just, that's incredible. I, man, I wonder, you know, how many folks, you know, the faithful among them who read the book of Micah or heard Micah speak, I wonder how many of them keyed into that and really their imagination started running, thinking.

Shawn (: 46:03

going.

everlasting. Yeah.

Nathan (: 46:30

What is going on here? Because this is something extraordinary that Micah is speaking to.

Shawn (: 46:38

Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, and so then do I have permission to go to Micah 6, 8, and 8? All right. Thank you. Thank you. No. My, sorry. Micah. Yeah. Well, you know, kind of the background that we have touched on before, but need to mention it again, is yes, the people have been guilty of idolatry, but that has also been connected to and perhaps led to this, you know, this terrible climate of injustice.

Nathan (: 46:43

Yes, you do. Yeah, please. Isaiah six. Micah. Sorry, Micah six eight.

Shawn (: 47:06

and oppression and taking advantage of the poor and the widowed and the orphans and so forth. And so that's a message too, like treat these people with integrity and love and justice and all that. And of course, Micah 6, 8, he's like, he has shown you, oh man, what is good and what I'm asking you, what God's asking you is to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

Nathan (: 47:07

Hmm.

Hmm.

Shawn (: 47:34

You know, it's justice, it's mercy, it's walking in concert with God. And that's just a beautiful invitation. It kind of, kind of just reduces it to the core of what it's all about. You know, it's in many ways, it's the first and second greatest commandment. Love God, love people, right? It's do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with God. And that's just a beautiful.

Nathan (: 47:51

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 48:03

reminder of what the whole thing is all about.

Nathan (: 48:06

That's right. So, and this is a plug for a future, actually for season three, a couple of friends and I are going to go through this Bible in 13 weeks again, just like Sean and I are, but we're going to focus on that social justice, if you would thread in scripture specifically as we work through, we're going to talk about how this shows up over and over and over and over again in the text of scripture.

Shawn (: 48:24

Mmm.

I look forward to hearing that. So that would be, you said a couple friends. Steve, is it what you were saying?

Nathan (: 48:36

Yeah, Steve, Steve Allred and TJ True. Yeah, it's gonna be good. I'm gonna pause real quick. I gotta check my stove.

Shawn (: 48:40

No, I'll be.

Okay, there's stove, uh oh.

Nathan (: 49:58

It was a little on the hot side, so...

Shawn (: 50:01

Mmm, mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 50:03

All right.

I went running down the stairs so I gotta get my breath back.

Shawn (: 50:12

Hehehehe

Nathan (: 50:15

So we're on to Nahum. Nahum is, looks like it's between Micah and Habakkuk, and it's a warning of the downfall of Nineveh. So why does God speak to the nations? I mean, we have Egypt, Babylon, Nineveh. Nineveh gets two books. What do you think about that?

Shawn (: 50:28

Hmm

Well, I mean, it obviously speaks to his universal care and concern. He has, obviously, a unique, special relationship with Israel, but he has deep, deep love and concern for those not of Israel. And the reason is not because he's trying to exert his, you know...

Nathan (: 50:43

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 51:08

supremacy. It's not because he's trying to obliterate these nations. As we talked about last week, he wants justice across the whole earth, right? He wants the well-being of every person, every creature, every man, woman, child, animal, you know. I mean, we didn't talk about that, but Jonah, he even

how many cattle there are in Ninevah that he's worried about. So, like, this just speaks to the universal love and concern that God has for all. And he wants flourishing and justice and mercy to be going on in every corner of the earth. So, insofar as these other nations are not acting according to his law of love,

Nathan (: 51:40

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 52:06

He has a bone to pick with them, so to speak. Actually, just by coincidence, I was listening to a sermon this week by a friend of mine who is noting actually the story of Jonah, and we don't probably understand just how barbaric the Assyrians were. I mean, they were like the height of barbarism, like just the level of...

Nathan (: 52:10

Hmm.

Shawn (: 52:36

violence and destruction that they pursued, you know, goes beyond anything that any of us have probably encountered, I'm willing to say, on this podcast. And it was way worse than the Babylonians, it was worse than the Egyptians. Like when they went forth to war, it was like they were after complete annihilation and they would do it in ways that are unspeakable.

Nathan (: 52:51

Hmm

Shawn (: 53:06

I mean, why would God not concern himself with such reprehensible behavior? I would be really troubled if he didn't.

Nathan (: 53:11

Hmm.

That's a great point. And the other point is, I think the other piece of that is that God also in the book of Jonah invites them to do, to choose a different course. And just a beautiful picture of accountability but grace and goodness in the story that God.

Shawn (: 53:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And that's what they do.

Nathan (: 53:41

Yeah, and that's a whole different, we could go a long ways down that, down that trail. Habakkuk is, go ahead.

Shawn (: 53:48

Well, it's interesting. No, no, I mean, it's just fascinating to me that Nineveh is one of the oldest cities in the world, the history of the world. Just kind of adds a little nuance to the story, is that it's an old, ancient city that God's always probably had his eye on and cares for.

Nathan (: 53:59

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Yeah. So then into Habakkuk. Habakkuk is also a short book and.

It looks like it's around the time of Daniel, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, although it is not mentioned. We don't get a solid historical context. But we do know it, I mean, we do get the sum framework because Hebechic is directed at the Babylonians and the Babylonians being used

Shawn (: 54:34

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 54:57

in a sense, as a discipline to Israel. And Habakkuk is just really thrown by that, how God could allow the Babylonians, who are not God-fearing people, who he has his ways of describing it, that God would allow them this power over the Hebrew people.

Shawn (: 55:05

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 55:25

And this is really puzzling to Habakkuk, which fascinatingly is not an uncommon question for human beings. How does one wicked power get to rise in ascendance?

Shawn (: 55:40

Interestingly, Nathan, arguably if we don't have the book of Habakkuk, we'd never have a Protestant Reformation, or at least the way it took because there was this line from Habakkuk that Paul quotes Romans, the jush shall live by faith, or in Habakkuk he actually says the jush shall live by his faith.

Nathan (: 55:48

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 56:07

which is a whole other story. But anyway, yeah, there's, you know, it's just fascinating how they all get woven together and lead to surprising results.

Nathan (: 56:07

Yep.

Yep. So the, the Habakkuk, I, as I was listening to it this time, I thought, you know, Habakkuk asks this question. He, he, at least he poses to God his bewilderment as to why Babylon is used or.

allowed to do what it does. Like, God, you're righteous. How in the world can you just turn away and pretend this isn't happening or however he words that? And then in chapter two, so I thought, well, I should pay attention here because this is a question that's been going on in my mind is understanding God's involvement with the nations because he's obviously not the one.

You know, the Babylonian invaders are not filled with the Holy Spirit, as you might put it, to destroy the Hebrews. Right? This is not the case. God is not there urging the Babylonians on to do their evil work. And so what comes clear in the book in chapter two is this idea painted out very specifically that the downfall of nations

is the fruit of the seeds basically they've planted when you've mistreated other nations, you've oppressed them. The time's coming when the tables will turn. And so for me, that's kind of what I had thought before. But for me, seeing it painted there in Habakkuk, God is essentially saying, you know, I'm not the one stirring up the Babylonians against the Hebrews. The Hebrews have

pursuit a course of action with the nations toward Babylon, et cetera. And there are certain repercussions that come as history unfolds. Um, so I just liked how Habakkuk actually spells it out in a way that I've, I've kind of been looking for and, and heard it in a new way this time in Habakkuk too.

Shawn (: 58:32

Yeah, really interesting, fascinating observations.

Nathan (: 58:37

And then we're onto Zephaniah.

Shawn (: 58:43

one of the Z Profits.

Nathan (: 58:45

One of the Z prophets, yes. And he is also during the time of Hezekiah, so overlaps with the ministry of Isaiah, et cetera.

Shawn (: 58:47

Hehehe

Mm-hmm. Yep. Short book as well.

Nathan (: 59:01

Yes, it is again about judgment on the nations, Judah's enemies, Jerusalem, etc. And just a whole lot of three chapters.

Shawn (: 59:14

wickedness of Jerusalem, yeah, and a promise of a remnant, which is an interesting theme in Scripture as well.

Nathan (: 59:20

Hmm.

It is one that we'll have to follow another time. So then we're at Haggai. Haggai is a pretty cool book because he specifically comes on the scene to encourage God's people to rebuild the temple. Um, they are more interested in, in remodeling or building their own homes. And Haggai is like, wait a minute, the big, the big thing that needs done before that is to put the house of God in order.

And then you can go about taking care of your own homes. They kind of got things backwards and Hey Guy calls them to account for that.

Shawn (: 1:00:03

Yeah, again, I don't know that it's that God needs a physical space, but it was at that part of the story, the way in which God's character could be encountered and understood in their context, so to speak. So any temptation to apply these to making sure our church buildings are

Nathan (: 1:00:16

Right.

Shawn (: 1:00:31

taken care of. Not sure if it's apples to apples comparison, but that's another story, Nathan.

Nathan (: 1:00:34

Right.

Yes. So, and I think it's worth noting that if idolatry was the downfall of Israel, it sort of seems quite uninformed to assume that you can, that in the return, as the people are returning to rebuild, that it's going to be.

It seems a little foolish for them to neglect the rebuilding of the temple. If idolatry was their downfall and they really want to succeed this time, why aren't they focusing on the worship of God to start on a good foot, to start in a solid foundation? So clearly they haven't learned their lesson.

Shawn (: 1:01:05

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

That seems to be a prevailing theme throughout the scripture.

Nathan (: 1:01:33

It does. And then we wrap up with Zechariah through verse 10. Zechariah is an interesting book. He's got some horsemen in here and there's a woman, a wicked woman in a basket with a metal lid on top. Isn't it? I got the right book, right? Yeah, there's a flying scroll here.

Shawn (: 1:01:53

Yeah, yep, there's lots. There's a vision of a lamp stand with, you know, that's a beautiful, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit. It's all about the oil of the spirit, you know. Yeah, so, lots of good stuff there.

Nathan (: 1:01:59

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And that golden lamp stand one, that's probably one of the best pieces of the book, the reminder of God's Holy Spirit operating in his people.

Shawn (: 1:02:14

Mm-hmm.

It's fascinating, you know, just as a side note, like God's tendency throughout these prophetic books to use very concrete, you know, object lessons. He has a measuring line as well, you know, and there's prophets where he, you know, whether it's Jeremiah or whomever, you know, go out and walk around naked, you know, and, you know, or go marry a prostitute.

Nathan (: 1:02:43

Hmm.

Shawn (: 1:02:49

note on God's way of communicating that he uses very acute, kind of concrete examples to draw larger spiritual points.

Nathan (: 1:03:01

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, that's a great observation. I love chapter three as well. Zechariah, it should be noted, is his ministry takes place during the return of the exiles or in Jerusalem among the returned exiles as the temple's being built. And chapter three focuses on Joshua the high priest who is high priest among the exiles there.

Shawn (: 1:03:09

Mmmm

Mm-hmm.

Nathan (: 1:03:30

and God's blessing on him, God's clothing him with garments of pure vestments. Yes, takes away his filthy garments and clothes him with pure clean garments. This is not literally, but spiritually showing that Joshua was qualified by God to lead the people in worship.

Shawn (: 1:03:37

takes away the filthy garments first? Yeah.

Such a powerful metaphor and just beautiful, beautiful picture. And you can see kind of what some might call a great controversy there where Satan is like laying claim to him and saying look at his filthiness and, you know, God's like the Lord rebuke you, Satan, you know, like this is a brand plucked from the

Nathan (: 1:03:57

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shawn (: 1:04:21

fire and like he's my guy and you know a picture of the gospel where he's removing the unrighteousness and giving him this spotless robe of righteousness. So powerful, powerful imagery.

Nathan (: 1:04:22

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yeah, so that's a good chapter to slow down for in Zechariah. That's it for this week, Sean. Do you have anything before we sign off?

Shawn (: 1:04:48

I got nothing more Nathan, we've basically gotten through the Hebrew Scriptures, the Old Testament portion of it, and now we're getting into, I'm not going to say the good stuff, but I happen to think the best stuff. So that'll be exciting going forward.

Nathan (: 1:04:55

Yes.

Yeah. Well, until next time, lean into the story of God's radical love and enjoy the journey of walking along through the books of scripture.

Transcribed by Riverside.fm